997 GT3/GT3 RS Weight Thread
02-15-2007 | 04:10 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by allegretto
So let's say we go out to a watering hole one night and there are two women at the bar. Both are of "generous" proportions but one has larger accoutriments between her navel and neck. Is she "better" because she has something a little better, or do we leave and go looking at a different bar?
The fact is that 3200 lbs is too darn much massXgravity for a proper track car! Street beast, OK. But not for a serious track car. Oh, I know I know...get a Cup Car. That's fine and all, but some want an honest road/track car.
Over on the TT side, the car catches a lot of flack for being only a couple hundred pounds more. Here we see folks giving a truly overstuffed vehicle a pass. And we haven't even begun to talk about the issues of elctronic countermeasures and what that does to the image of a track car.
"Yeah, she's all racer", if you don't count PASM, PSM etc.
For those of you who want to seriously track your 997 GT-3's, how are you going to do that? Have a "assist disabled" league? I'm just not sure how these helpers are going to be rolled into the formula. Anyone already know?
The fact is that 3200 lbs is too darn much massXgravity for a proper track car! Street beast, OK. But not for a serious track car. Oh, I know I know...get a Cup Car. That's fine and all, but some want an honest road/track car.
Over on the TT side, the car catches a lot of flack for being only a couple hundred pounds more. Here we see folks giving a truly overstuffed vehicle a pass. And we haven't even begun to talk about the issues of elctronic countermeasures and what that does to the image of a track car.
"Yeah, she's all racer", if you don't count PASM, PSM etc.
For those of you who want to seriously track your 997 GT-3's, how are you going to do that? Have a "assist disabled" league? I'm just not sure how these helpers are going to be rolled into the formula. Anyone already know?
All your really saying is how much more "incompetent" the old GT3 was or is. Fact remains that it can't beat the heavier new car even with a seat pulled out of it and with its suspension optimally tuned.
02-15-2007 | 04:11 PM
#77
Racer
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From: Boston, USA
Originally Posted by RR
When talking about weights, no one has mentioned that the 997GT3 is torsionally stiffer by 8% over the old GT3 and the flexural stiffness is up by 40% over the old car (EVO June 2006 Pg 82)....To me it's obvious the 997GT3 doesn't need to lose anything in it, if it can already beat a stripped out 996GT3.
more importantly this thread is not about which car is better as many of the people discussing have or are getting a 997 which imeans they think it's a better car... nothing wrong with people wanting their cars to be lighter...the effect on driving feel and experience is more important than lap time IMO
02-15-2007 | 04:16 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by allegretto
"Yeah, she's all racer", if you don't count PASM, PSM etc.
car has TC and not PSM and it can be turned off
PASM is not a driver aid it's just active shocks like having PSS9 that changes damping on its own..i am not a fan because of it's less natural and more reactive nature on 997s i had..it's like the active shocks in 360/430
02-15-2007 | 04:21 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by RR
<snip>Fact remains that it can't beat the heavier new car even with a seat pulled out of it and with its suspension optimally tuned.
I expect in coming months we'll start to see club racing and time trials where the real potential of the two cars can be compared by the stop watch. For now, it's early days and it's all subjective.
02-15-2007 | 04:23 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by allegretto
The fact is that 3200 lbs is too darn much massXgravity for a proper track car! Street beast, OK. But not for a serious track car. Oh, I know I know...get a Cup Car. That's fine and all, but some want an honest road/track car.
However, as has been pointed out by many, the GT3 is a "street beast", not a proper track car...the RS is your "honest road/track car", but unfortunately laws in this country don't allow for the plexi rear window, roll bar, CF seats, harnesses, and fire extinguisher that come standard on the RS in other markets.
Back to the original subject, I do agree that Porsche's press releases need better editing...it's not just the weight info that's been incorrect and inconsistent in recent years. I recall the 997S ROW no-cost -20mm sport suspension with LSD option being shown on Porsche's US website for about a year, there was the RS's "CF front lid", lightweight door panels were indicated on the RS in an initial US press release, etc. I don't think they are intending to deceive.
02-15-2007 | 04:26 PM
#82
Intermediate
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From: NL
Originally Posted by gete3
Yes the RS is shamefully overweight as Porsche's ultimate race/road car (a four-seat M3 CSL weighs less). But look on the bright side - it's ORANGE with free stickers.
02-15-2007 | 04:49 PM
#83
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From: in a happy place
But PASM cannot be shut off, or is it different on GT-3's
What I meant to say is that at 3200 lbs it's a road car that can be tracked. Only a couple of hundred pounds less than a TT which I think most would say is too heavy. Ther are no laws that state that an RS must weight over 3000 lbs. That's Porsche's call. I'll bet they could cover all DOT requirements and come in under 3K if they wanted to. But the Marketing and Accounting depts have a good deal to say about it all.
What I meant to say is that at 3200 lbs it's a road car that can be tracked. Only a couple of hundred pounds less than a TT which I think most would say is too heavy. Ther are no laws that state that an RS must weight over 3000 lbs. That's Porsche's call. I'll bet they could cover all DOT requirements and come in under 3K if they wanted to. But the Marketing and Accounting depts have a good deal to say about it all.
02-15-2007 | 05:18 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by allegretto
Ther are no laws that state that an RS must weight over 3000 lbs. That's Porsche's call. I'll bet they could cover all DOT requirements and come in under 3K if they wanted to.
We'd all like the modern cars to be lighter...more Exige-like...but even that has crept up to 2,100 pounds in current (and still DOT-exempt) S trim. It has to be kept in mind that the basic platform used for the GT3/GT3 RS is shared with the Boxster/Cayman as well as the rest of the 997 line, and thus must be cost effective and mass produced while also being able to handle 500+ hp in Turbo form and capable of cruising at 200+ mph.
02-16-2007 | 01:18 AM
#85
Drifting
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From: Way Back In, New Zealand
la plus ca change....
any of you old guys remember our discussion of those factory 996 gt2 wheels???
they can't give us all the cool bits and still be:
"the most profitable car company in the world"
as for chasing lightweight in a strad as someone mentioned earlier, they were all way over factory claimed weight, but we still liked them,and i liked my z06.
but the 997 GT3 is a better car as delivered than both.
any of you old guys remember our discussion of those factory 996 gt2 wheels???
they can't give us all the cool bits and still be:
"the most profitable car company in the world"
as for chasing lightweight in a strad as someone mentioned earlier, they were all way over factory claimed weight, but we still liked them,and i liked my z06.
but the 997 GT3 is a better car as delivered than both.
02-16-2007 | 03:38 AM
#86
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Originally Posted by allegretto
But PASM cannot be shut off, or is it different on GT-3's
What I meant to say is that at 3200 lbs it's a road car that can be tracked. Only a couple of hundred pounds less than a TT which I think most would say is too heavy. Ther are no laws that state that an RS must weight over 3000 lbs. That's Porsche's call. I'll bet they could cover all DOT requirements and come in under 3K if they wanted to. But the Marketing and Accounting depts have a good deal to say about it all.
What I meant to say is that at 3200 lbs it's a road car that can be tracked. Only a couple of hundred pounds less than a TT which I think most would say is too heavy. Ther are no laws that state that an RS must weight over 3000 lbs. That's Porsche's call. I'll bet they could cover all DOT requirements and come in under 3K if they wanted to. But the Marketing and Accounting depts have a good deal to say about it all.
02-16-2007 | 03:41 AM
#87
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Originally Posted by frayed
the point is that if Porsche decided to built a car with the same purpose and narrow scope of appeal and purpose as the loti, it would be outstanding. This is what the RS should have been IMO.
02-16-2007 | 11:08 AM
#88
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Originally Posted by mooty
PASM CAN be shut off. search for a post by AWE. you can kill off PASM and install aftermarket coil overs if you like.
02-16-2007 | 11:32 AM
#90
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Originally Posted by mitch236
Has anyone figured out how to do this?
I'm trying to get that confirmed through the local JRZ "in crowd." (TRG)