PSM for all soon
#61
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Originally Posted by gete3
Several years ago I used to drive a lightweight Subaru Spec C with no driver aids on the road and track with lots of sideways fun and without any problem. On wet tracks the car would slide predictably and the AWD often prevented a major moment.
If PSM can be turned off and can stay off, I won't have a problem with it. Until then, I will avoid any P car that has PSM in it.
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Originally Posted by krC2S
i found it interesting that a PCA instructor i met at one of the DE's kept PSM on in his 997 which he
tracks sometimes along with his track car( an older 911 with no psm ) and was recommending to others to do that as long as it's in sport mode which is even less intrusive
not sure if i agree but i guess there's no harm if it can be truned off
tracks sometimes along with his track car( an older 911 with no psm ) and was recommending to others to do that as long as it's in sport mode which is even less intrusive
not sure if i agree but i guess there's no harm if it can be truned off
Many do this as a liability reason only, because they don't trust the students having any car control skills, and they don't need the fingers pointing their way when spectacular crashes happen.
And really, can you blame them? Many students after the crashes still don't know what happened at the drivers meeting.
If it can come back up on its own, it cannot be turned off.
With cars getting more powerful, and more and more drivers having never driven RWD cars without any types of electronics, I happen to think that car control classes should be a prereqisite before someone should be allowed to even sign up as a rookie, but that's just me.
#63
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Originally Posted by stuka
The biggest reason why I took a bath on the Turbo is because I have always been able to get lurid oversteers in my E36 M3 and E46 M3, and to spent the kind of $$$ I did, with more HP than either M3, only to be told by the computer that it knows better than me, and that I don't need to be going sideways, is a total let down.
If PSM can be turned off and can stay off, I won't have a problem with it. Until then, I will avoid any P car that has PSM in it.
If PSM can be turned off and can stay off, I won't have a problem with it. Until then, I will avoid any P car that has PSM in it.
The envelope for activation with the 997 is MUCH wider than the 996.
When turned OFF it will remain off and control interventions by the
system will only be executed when heavy pressure is applied to the brake pedal. To do this, ABS control must be active at one front wheel at least, opperating in the background... After an event the system remains in the "off" setting.
True enough, PSM is always in the background and can not be fully, 100%deactivated.
ABD (automatic brake differential)is always active regardless of 'on' or 'off' setting.
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#64
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Stuka - PCA and BMW say PSM "on" to avoid liability. If you student crashes one might get blamed for turning PSM off.
Your 996TT had the older system which is indeed intrusive especially on sticky tires. The newer cars 9x7 have a PSM which is much easier to live with.
The way I see it, there are three kinds of drivers:
Operators - know nothing about driving techniques. PSM will be a real benefit to them.
Hot Shots - those who think they can drive but have no skills. PSM might be a liability.
Real Drivers - with skills might find PSM intrusive or at the least, an expensive gadget they do not need.
Since operators are the vast majority, I have no doubt that PSM will be mandatory.
Your 996TT had the older system which is indeed intrusive especially on sticky tires. The newer cars 9x7 have a PSM which is much easier to live with.
The way I see it, there are three kinds of drivers:
Operators - know nothing about driving techniques. PSM will be a real benefit to them.
Hot Shots - those who think they can drive but have no skills. PSM might be a liability.
Real Drivers - with skills might find PSM intrusive or at the least, an expensive gadget they do not need.
Since operators are the vast majority, I have no doubt that PSM will be mandatory.
#65
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Bob
To your categories you may care to add Pilot
I recall driving a couple of laps with Walter Röhrl at the Nürburgring in a car he had not driven before. He chose to leave the stability management system ON. In truth, as with most pilots, it was a matter of supreme indifference to him whether the system was engaged or not. Of course he would turn the system off whzen setting a lap time for the book, otherwise its just something thats there, or not there.
R+C
To your categories you may care to add Pilot
I recall driving a couple of laps with Walter Röhrl at the Nürburgring in a car he had not driven before. He chose to leave the stability management system ON. In truth, as with most pilots, it was a matter of supreme indifference to him whether the system was engaged or not. Of course he would turn the system off whzen setting a lap time for the book, otherwise its just something thats there, or not there.
R+C
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Nord - I would certainly include Walter in the "real driver" category. Obviously he finds PSM intrusive when he is going for a fast lap.
Jeff - I never categorized anyone as a "poseur" or a purist. I do not automatically categorize track drivers as "Real Drivers". As the CI of an active PCA region, I have seen too many "track drivers" who cannot handle a car and have no feel for what's going on under them. On the other hand, skilled drivers tend to track their cars more than most.
In the same vein, there are skilled drivers who do not track. I supect they are a smaller group if only because it is very hard (foolish in fact) to explore the limits of traction and balance anywhere but on a track unless you have a lot of snow and ice handy. Considering the number of Finns at the top level of racing and rallying, I figure there is a snow connection there. Finland has a total population which is about half that of New York City.
Best,
Jeff - I never categorized anyone as a "poseur" or a purist. I do not automatically categorize track drivers as "Real Drivers". As the CI of an active PCA region, I have seen too many "track drivers" who cannot handle a car and have no feel for what's going on under them. On the other hand, skilled drivers tend to track their cars more than most.
In the same vein, there are skilled drivers who do not track. I supect they are a smaller group if only because it is very hard (foolish in fact) to explore the limits of traction and balance anywhere but on a track unless you have a lot of snow and ice handy. Considering the number of Finns at the top level of racing and rallying, I figure there is a snow connection there. Finland has a total population which is about half that of New York City.
Best,
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
...Considering the number of Finns at the top level of racing and rallying, I figure there is a snow connection there. Finland has a total population which is about half that of New York City...
Currently there is 2 Finns in top level of F1, few in WRC, numerous in Enduro, few in GT series, one in RR.
Only country ever to have F1 & WRC Champion same year, twice in a row.
People often ask why Finns are so good in motorsport and I agree, snow connection must be one of the contributing factors.
Also the numerous gravel roads play a major role. Most of the Finnaish WRC drivers come from rural area.
And all this certainly applies to the asphalt, I know I have learned a lot from driving on snow, ice & gravel and use those skills on asphalt. There's basically two race tracks in Finland (both of them are not used for International racing) and summer is short!, yet we have plenty of good drivers in asphalt racing.
Last edited by Flying Finn; 11-24-2006 at 09:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by Colm
Stuka,
You may find it interesting that in my F430 (race mode) at turn 7 at Sears point I can trigger the stability management program, but in my 997 (or GT2) it is business as usual, nothing changes and there is no interference.
You may find it interesting that in my F430 (race mode) at turn 7 at Sears point I can trigger the stability management program, but in my 997 (or GT2) it is business as usual, nothing changes and there is no interference.
I can't imagine the how tough it must be for you to decide which of these cars to track. Some people truly have to make some difficult decisions in life. My hat's off to you!
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