Nordschleife

Just a couple of points.

1. remember in its home country, the GT3 is just another Porsche, it gets driven on a daily basis, all year round by many owners. PCM is required, the hands free mobile phone helps save the driver from prosecution (you get fined for using one on a push bike in Germany). Once you have adjusted to navigation systems with dynamic routing round traffic delays and warnings of upcoming radar cameras, you would not live without it. It makes your trips faster, you never have to waste time looking for an address in a strange town. So PCM is part of getting from A to B quickly, safely and legally.

2. Whats wrong with traction control, race cars have traction control, lots of sporting cars have suspension that gets very firm under hard driving. Check out the F430 Challenge. These features can be tailored to suit a car with a sporting personality. Again check out the F430. The systems in the GT3 and the 997S are not the same in operation or effect.

Walter doesn't do nearly as much yada yada as his bosses would like. I am quite confident that better than 99% of all GT3 customers need all the help they can get. There is PASM and there is PASM. If you really don't need it, you probably should have a separate track car, in that case, the 997 Cup is very good value for money.

Mr. C4

Nordschleife,

I don't think the GT3 is for you, I believe you are more suited for a fully loaded Carrera S, with navigation and all.

All the gizmos in the 997 GT3 are there for a reason and that reason is to sell more cars. In order to sell more cars, Porsche had to make the 997 GT3 more driveable to the average potential customer. The 996 GT3 sales were all but good and 05 cars are still sitting pretty with dealers in many places outside Europe where cupholders and drivers aid are a must. The 996 GT3 was also subject to many buy backs, as a result of many unhappy customers that found the car to hardcore and I bet you that Porsche doesn't want a repeat of this story.

If Porsche can manage to squeez all the gizmos in the 997 GT3 and make it faster and safer than the 996 GT3, FINE! It will however not appeal to the hardcore trackday junkies and Porsche Motrorsport purists like owners of 911, 964, 993 and 996 RS together with 996 GT3 owners.

MrBonus

The 997S has PSM; this brochure states "traction control." I question if they are the same thing. Hell, the Exige has traction control and I don't think anyone would call that a watered-down street car.

I do take issue with the integrated navigation although I love mine.

DanH

The exige has it as an aftermarket option and it is an extremely basic system that cuts power to the engine. No single wheel braking via the ABS system etc.

If you look at the web presentation of Porsche's on the 997 Turbo, there is mention of a new traction control system. Perhaps it is one and the same as the 997 GT3s.

Nordschleife

Johannes

As somebody professionally involved in endurance and Supercup racing, I think I do know what car is for me. You are correct, the standard GT3 is a bit of a girls blouse. Ruf does it much better. Your (mis)understanding of what suits me is 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

Germany is one of the very few places in the world where you can legally drive a car very fast indeed for hours at a time. Doing this on open roads on a daily basis requires certain tools, including hands free mobiles and navigation systems. A street driven GT3 benefits from this. The GT3 is very good on the track, but its a road car, not a track car. There is a cult, in certain quarters which promulgates the myth that the GT3 is something special, it suits certain owners and their dealers. The reality is that it is another car in the model range with desirable spporting characteristics. Dealers, particularly in the US laidle out the bull**** about the GT3 being 'special', not for the ordinary driver, this really is egregious nonsense, its for the driver who enjoys a car with sporting characteristics, as always with Porsche you pay more for less.

As far as Porsche Motorsport junkies are concerned, they can buy a track car from Weissach, lets not confuse them with the cars designed for the road. The standard GT3, whether in CS or RS mode is not a track car, its a street car.

LastGT3

I think we all can agree that GPS Nav, TC, PASM, and Stab Mgt are all very good at making any driver better and likely safer.

I think we can agree that control vs all out speed can sometimes be contradictory. The new technology is great....any we pay for it. In the case of a car for driving European roads, I think the perfect Porsche would be a turbo with all the e-nannies that you can possibly option out.

However, as a track car that I do not have to trailer, I chose my 996GT3 to AVOID any things that I believe porsche is deciding a need and must have...ie taking my control away. I do believe, this is a turning point, and that speeds will increase not due to HP or handling but due IC speed and sensors that work in place of my brian and senses...ironically the exact feelings that I desire to have while driving.
[I do now believe that porsche is now approachng the area of the C5 and C6Z06 where speed for most will maxed not by the driver but by the speed and algorithms used in your yaw sensor-Stab Mgt computer ].

To be perfectly honest, I love the new GT3 - I just want a choice, I want control , and do not want the options rammed down my throat esp if they should be on the car I drive every day and not a special car.

Then again, my other track car has 0 electronics and I love that too, no ABS.

If I wanted a daily driver porsche, I woiuld get a 997s or Cayene or a Cayman.

Nordschleife

The Turbo is a nice car for driving long distances, well it would be, were it not for the Turbo lag. Yes, it is there, its not as bad as it was, but it doesn't have the lightening quick response of a normally aspirated car. If you doubt me, go out and drive the 2006 Gallardo with 520 bhp. A lot of people have discovered this difference, after years of (mostly) Porsche Turbo driving, and there are an aweful lot of the latter sitting in the back yard of the Lambo dealer in Stuttgart.

As far as ABS is concerned, its a worthwhile driver's aid, those race drivers in classes which allow ABS do ask for it to be installed, which is indicative of some worth. In fact in endurance racing we refer to the system as 'brake and forget'. It surely helps under difficult conditions. I am aware that there can be issues when people put slicks on cars with ABS systems designed for street tyres, however this can be circumvented quite easily in the case of the GT3. For others there are lots of development engineers around who are only too happy to do a little moonlighting to get the parameters correct for ABS to function properly with slicks. If I have to modulate the brakes in a car myself, all four wheels are modulated when the wheel with the least grip locks up, if the ABS does it, it does so individually (on the modern ABS systems).
What we are talking about is the difference between a tool and a toy. For many people a car is a tool even if its a race car. A car to take to the track for track days and club racing is a toy, even if its fast and expensive. If its used to a purpose then the systems which are not always desirable in a toy become important in the tool used to get around the place, even if the 'place' is a race track.

Mr. C4

Nordchleife,

Aaaah, I'm also actively involved in endurance racing (12 hours racing a works Subaru WRX Sti).

I don't want to get in to more details of opinion, I accept that it is a matter people having different opinions. Let's leave it at that and I sincerely hope I will be one of the first to drive the new 997 GT3 and see what it is really "made of"!

Ciao,

healeyg

kflem -

Do you understand how porsche racing is set up? first, the 3.6 motor in the RSR for 2005 was putting out at least 450hp in ALMS trim (i think the R version of the motor was also used in the Speed GT challenge this year in a cup car chassis), with a redline of at least 8500rpm. secondly, the race motors are quite a bit different than the street motors. by this i mean there is no variocam and there is no varioram. variocam alters the timing of the camshafts (on the intake side only i beleive). varioram alters the length of the intake for various resonance frequencies for various rpm. both boost power and torque and are only in the street cars. i think they are too prone to possible failure for endurance racing. you may also not be aware that the cup car motor was putting out 380hp with a 8000rpm redline in 2003 when the GT3 came out. the GT3 motor put out 381 with a 8200rpm redline. one reason for the higher RPM is that the street motor uses additional titanium parts (connecting rods, rocker arms, etc.)

Point being, the racing program is different than the street program for the engines. while the turbo, gt2, and gt3 use the dry sump racing technology, the motors are created for street/track and a long service life, where the racing motors are pure racing and need to be rebuilt much more frequently.

e6tme

The GT3 has Traction Control (TC) the same system as on the CGT. It does not have PSM, which is equipped on the 997.

Ciao!

healeyg

C4 -
with all due respect, i disagree with your assessment. the GT3 was not ever ment to be the hardest of core for the street. This is why they have the RS, am i wrong? the GT3 is ment to be that practical limit of livability on the street and competant on the track. it sounds to me that a technology like PASM helps acheive both goals well. if sell more cars = better car, i'm all for it. buy a cup car if you want a race car. buy a GT3 RS is you want a street legal hard core track car. buy a GT3 if you want a street livable track day car. i don't understand the problem???

Phokaioglaukos

Please explain this more.

Mr. C4

healeyg,

I have exactly what I want, a Mk. 1 GT3 Clubsport with a couple of track oriented mods. Trust me, I was the first person to put down a deposit for the 997 GT3 at my dealer but have withdrawn from going through with the purchase and money is not the reason for pulling out.

Ciao,

healeyg

C4 - why wouldn't the 997 GT3 RS suit your needs? it may very well not have any PASM and is highly likely to be more hard core than your MK1 club sport (like the 996 RS was)

Mr. C4

Have you heard anything about a 997 RS? I havent!

It now happens to be so that I was living in the United Arab Emirates during the 996 RS era and the dealer was allocated with 4 cars, all earmarked for memebers of the royal family. Moving to Singapore, my car was sent to Sweden for use for 4 weeks in the summer, hence no RS. Currently residing in Singapore (most expensive place in the world to purchase/own a car), a 997 RS will be close to 1 million USD and that it is not worth.

I think I have expalined enough and do not want to turn this in to a pissing contest.

Ciao,