997 GT3 official specs
02-24-2006, 06:54 PM
#243
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife
Did anbody notice, the 997 GT3 has the 'RSR' suspension geometry, like the 996 GT3RS
However, on the Porsche website, the calipers don't look installed on the same position as on the 996 GT3 RS, or the brochure two weeks ago.
02-25-2006, 06:50 AM
#244
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife
Just to put things in context - Allan drives as well as most professionals, whoops, Allen is a skilful professional. he can make a monkey go fast round a track.
Do not assume that you can extrapolate from his experience. Nothing like watching an expert get rid of understeer.
R+C
Do not assume that you can extrapolate from his experience. Nothing like watching an expert get rid of understeer.
R+C
I'm not a pro Robin (well I am qualified yes but don't do it for a living), however I will blow my trumpet and say that I've been told a few times (by Calum Lockie to name one) that I'm good enough but for the fact that I'm a tall fat lump, I wanted to be a fighter pilot when I was at school but this was soon ruled out as I became too tall and too heavy by the age of 12
I also agree with your point, the GT3 is nowhere near as easy to get the best out of as an Exige by any stretch of the imagination.
Monkeys are easy...just have plenty of banannas on hand and sprinkle 'em on the line...
02-25-2006, 12:18 PM
#245
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As far as I know, no one has track tested an Exige S yet, so we'll have to wait to see how it fairs. I know the Z06 has already seen a lot of track time and everything I've heard is very positive.
Here are some Top Gear lap times I got from the broadcasts. Same driver, same track. Some of the tests were done in the rain and the hosts say that the rain will take 3-4 seconds off of a lap. Note that the Exige listed is the standard version with only 130 lb/ft of torque. The new Exige S has 30 more horsepower and 30 more lb/ft of torque. Doesn't sound like much, but remember how little the Exige weighs. The stock Exige does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and the Exige S in 4.1. It's quite a bit quicker. So in the dry the standard Exige should be right on the heels of a 996 GT3RS and the Exige S would be next to it or passing it. "BS" I can hear you saying but I'm not making up these number below. Watch Top Gear and you can see for yourself.
Porsche Carrera GT - 1.19.8
Porsche 996 GT3RS - 1.22.3
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4 (wet)
Porsche Cayman S - 1.26.7
Porsche 996 GT3 - 1.27.2
Porsche 997 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (wet)
Porsche 996 Turbo - 1.31.0
How does one explain the C&D article? Two things: the tests were done on Road Atlanta which is a power track. The car with a higher top speed has the advantage. Secondly, the temperatures that day were in the 30s, to the Exige's advantage, its factory R compound tires, probably never got up to a good temperature to lend an advantage. Also the cold air helped both cars produce better than usual power, which again gave the advantage to the Cayman. Redo the test on a handling track on a warm day and I think you'd see a different result. Note how the Exige was faster on the Top Gear track?
I still stand by my statement that for $106,000 the 997 GT3 should turn in much better lap times.
Here are some Top Gear lap times I got from the broadcasts. Same driver, same track. Some of the tests were done in the rain and the hosts say that the rain will take 3-4 seconds off of a lap. Note that the Exige listed is the standard version with only 130 lb/ft of torque. The new Exige S has 30 more horsepower and 30 more lb/ft of torque. Doesn't sound like much, but remember how little the Exige weighs. The stock Exige does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and the Exige S in 4.1. It's quite a bit quicker. So in the dry the standard Exige should be right on the heels of a 996 GT3RS and the Exige S would be next to it or passing it. "BS" I can hear you saying but I'm not making up these number below. Watch Top Gear and you can see for yourself.
Porsche Carrera GT - 1.19.8
Porsche 996 GT3RS - 1.22.3
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4 (wet)
Porsche Cayman S - 1.26.7
Porsche 996 GT3 - 1.27.2
Porsche 997 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (wet)
Porsche 996 Turbo - 1.31.0
How does one explain the C&D article? Two things: the tests were done on Road Atlanta which is a power track. The car with a higher top speed has the advantage. Secondly, the temperatures that day were in the 30s, to the Exige's advantage, its factory R compound tires, probably never got up to a good temperature to lend an advantage. Also the cold air helped both cars produce better than usual power, which again gave the advantage to the Cayman. Redo the test on a handling track on a warm day and I think you'd see a different result. Note how the Exige was faster on the Top Gear track?
I still stand by my statement that for $106,000 the 997 GT3 should turn in much better lap times.
02-25-2006, 12:33 PM
#246
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife
Did anbody notice, the 997 GT3 has the 'RSR' suspension geometry, like the 996 GT3RS
By the way, did anybody notice the tires on the official pictures? They are Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. Here is the deal, Porsche will take the 997 GT3 to the Ring on MPSC, run a way faster time than the 996 GT3 ran on street tires (Michelin Pilot Sports 2), and claim the new car is way faster than the old car.
The MPSC is a faster track tire than the original Pirelli Corsa on the 996 GT3 RS. I could say they're 0.5 secs faster on a 60 secs course. On the Nuerburgring the stock 996 GT3 RS on MPSC could run a 7:40 or even less than that.
The good news is that 19" r-comp tires are available (North Loop mentioned that).
02-25-2006, 12:48 PM
#247
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Truely love the top gear show, particularly the 997 vr Aston Martin vr M6 episode, BUTT, the lap times should be taken with a very large grain of salt. Conditions very different for different cars. The gt3, for example, was timed/ran in a virtual monsoon. as I recall. Also, for all we know, the cars may have been driven by different drivers; there might be more than one "stig".
Jack
Jack
Last edited by pedsurg; 02-25-2006 at 02:38 PM. Reason: spelling
02-25-2006, 02:11 PM
#249
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MickOpalak,
Why do you feel the need to try and "elevate" the Exige? I think it is an awesome car. I was very close to buying one myself. I have never driven one, but I drove an Elise at VIR. The grin on my face was from ear to ear! It was a blast!!!! When I got back in my GT3, I felt like I was driving a big truck (although a very fast one). Kind of comparable to going from my GT3 to the Cayenne Turbo. Anyway, all this bench racing is pointless. I know and you obviously know that you have just as much fun (if not more) than any of us have in our _________ (insert your personal favorite car)! Lap time and the like really make little difference for most of us here. If your looking for bragging rights like some people, go buy an Audi R8 or Porsche RS Spyder (I know it's not possible - so everyone hush). Really, I respect your car and your opinion of it and I'm sure most everyone else here does as well. Don't feel the need to defend your wonderful choice in a fine track day car. As for everyone trying to slam the Exige, saying how superior their Cayman, GT3, etc, etc. - GET OVER IT!!!!
Why do you feel the need to try and "elevate" the Exige? I think it is an awesome car. I was very close to buying one myself. I have never driven one, but I drove an Elise at VIR. The grin on my face was from ear to ear! It was a blast!!!! When I got back in my GT3, I felt like I was driving a big truck (although a very fast one). Kind of comparable to going from my GT3 to the Cayenne Turbo. Anyway, all this bench racing is pointless. I know and you obviously know that you have just as much fun (if not more) than any of us have in our _________ (insert your personal favorite car)! Lap time and the like really make little difference for most of us here. If your looking for bragging rights like some people, go buy an Audi R8 or Porsche RS Spyder (I know it's not possible - so everyone hush). Really, I respect your car and your opinion of it and I'm sure most everyone else here does as well. Don't feel the need to defend your wonderful choice in a fine track day car. As for everyone trying to slam the Exige, saying how superior their Cayman, GT3, etc, etc. - GET OVER IT!!!!
02-25-2006, 03:30 PM
#250
Drifting
Oh ye of little faith, did you notice that when the TC was disabled in the official GT3 video, the driver was able to hang it out as far as he wanted... let's try and give Porsche the benefit of the doubt next time, ok? 
The new GT3 is the first 911 since the 993 Turbo that has my heart racing...
The new GT3 is the first 911 since the 993 Turbo that has my heart racing...
02-25-2006, 04:26 PM
#252
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife
MJSpeed
There is a possibility that the next 911 will be an 8 cylinder model. If this comes to pass, then it is reasonable to regard the 997 as the swan song of the 6-cylinder boxer engine. In such circumstances, and based on conversations with PAG people in various different departments, I would expect different models to be produced to clear the parts bins of as much 997/6 cylinder stuff as possible.
With the forthcoming VW developed and produced Panamera offering genuine 4-seater capabilities, the need for vestigal seats in the back of the 911 is reduced. This opens up the possibility of a reversion to the original pre 356 layout with an engine in front of the rear wheels, an even bigger change than the switch from air to water cooled engines.
R+C
There is a possibility that the next 911 will be an 8 cylinder model. If this comes to pass, then it is reasonable to regard the 997 as the swan song of the 6-cylinder boxer engine. In such circumstances, and based on conversations with PAG people in various different departments, I would expect different models to be produced to clear the parts bins of as much 997/6 cylinder stuff as possible.
With the forthcoming VW developed and produced Panamera offering genuine 4-seater capabilities, the need for vestigal seats in the back of the 911 is reduced. This opens up the possibility of a reversion to the original pre 356 layout with an engine in front of the rear wheels, an even bigger change than the switch from air to water cooled engines.
R+C
I, for one, would love to see the 911 with a more balanced front to back weight distribution and a larger displacement eight cylinder solution.
Still, as P sales and profits continue to soar I see less and less reason for them to cater to "enthusiast".
Being relatively new to Porsches and Porsche forums I still look at the cars from a somewhat detached third party perspective. To me, what it looks like most rennlist and rennteam members want is a Porsche Kit Car. A car you could build up if you wanted a luxo example or leave stripped down if you wanted the ultimate lightweight racer. Something that would allow a third party parts supply for track tuned items and afford you the chance to personally spec and adjust the suspension, steering, power plant and drivetrain.
Maybe some of you would assuage your frustration getting into the kit car or restomod hobby. And I don't mean building up a car with used Mustang II parts, they build track worthy cars from all new and custom parts these days (though the old school junkers still exist too).
A stripped down factory 911 kit from Porsche--would you build it if they offered it? I would, but I'm not holding my breath.
02-25-2006, 05:08 PM
#253
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I'm enjoying the discussions however there are not enough facts from Porsche AG for me.
Opinions are fine but buying or not buying Porsche AG products is what really matters to them.
If in doubt, don't order a 997 GT3.
Opinions are fine but buying or not buying Porsche AG products is what really matters to them.
If in doubt, don't order a 997 GT3.
02-25-2006, 08:53 PM
#254
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Originally Posted by MickOpalak
As far as I know, no one has track tested an Exige S yet, so we'll have to wait to see how it fairs. I know the Z06 has already seen a lot of track time and everything I've heard is very positive.
Here are some Top Gear lap times I got from the broadcasts. Same driver, same track. Some of the tests were done in the rain and the hosts say that the rain will take 3-4 seconds off of a lap. Note that the Exige listed is the standard version with only 130 lb/ft of torque. The new Exige S has 30 more horsepower and 30 more lb/ft of torque. Doesn't sound like much, but remember how little the Exige weighs. The stock Exige does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and the Exige S in 4.1. It's quite a bit quicker. So in the dry the standard Exige should be right on the heels of a 996 GT3RS and the Exige S would be next to it or passing it. "BS" I can hear you saying but I'm not making up these number below. Watch Top Gear and you can see for yourself.
Porsche Carrera GT - 1.19.8
Porsche 996 GT3RS - 1.22.3
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4 (wet)
Porsche Cayman S - 1.26.7
Porsche 996 GT3 - 1.27.2
Porsche 997 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (wet)
Porsche 996 Turbo - 1.31.0
How does one explain the C&D article? Two things: the tests were done on Road Atlanta which is a power track. The car with a higher top speed has the advantage. Secondly, the temperatures that day were in the 30s, to the Exige's advantage, its factory R compound tires, probably never got up to a good temperature to lend an advantage. Also the cold air helped both cars produce better than usual power, which again gave the advantage to the Cayman. Redo the test on a handling track on a warm day and I think you'd see a different result. Note how the Exige was faster on the Top Gear track?
I still stand by my statement that for $106,000 the 997 GT3 should turn in much better lap times.
Here are some Top Gear lap times I got from the broadcasts. Same driver, same track. Some of the tests were done in the rain and the hosts say that the rain will take 3-4 seconds off of a lap. Note that the Exige listed is the standard version with only 130 lb/ft of torque. The new Exige S has 30 more horsepower and 30 more lb/ft of torque. Doesn't sound like much, but remember how little the Exige weighs. The stock Exige does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and the Exige S in 4.1. It's quite a bit quicker. So in the dry the standard Exige should be right on the heels of a 996 GT3RS and the Exige S would be next to it or passing it. "BS" I can hear you saying but I'm not making up these number below. Watch Top Gear and you can see for yourself.
Porsche Carrera GT - 1.19.8
Porsche 996 GT3RS - 1.22.3
Lotus Exige - 1.26.4 (wet)
Porsche Cayman S - 1.26.7
Porsche 996 GT3 - 1.27.2
Porsche 997 Carrera S - 1.28.9 (wet)
Porsche 996 Turbo - 1.31.0
How does one explain the C&D article? Two things: the tests were done on Road Atlanta which is a power track. The car with a higher top speed has the advantage. Secondly, the temperatures that day were in the 30s, to the Exige's advantage, its factory R compound tires, probably never got up to a good temperature to lend an advantage. Also the cold air helped both cars produce better than usual power, which again gave the advantage to the Cayman. Redo the test on a handling track on a warm day and I think you'd see a different result. Note how the Exige was faster on the Top Gear track?
I still stand by my statement that for $106,000 the 997 GT3 should turn in much better lap times.
Exige S - 218bhp, 935Kg, 0-60 4.3sec, Power-to-weight 233.2bhp/tonne, Suspension: Fully independent suspension utilising unequal length wishbones, Bilstein mono-tube gas damper, Eibach coaxial coil spring at each corner and front anti-roll bar.
Exige 240R - 243bhp, 930Kg, 0-60 3.9sec, Power-to-weight 261bhp/tonne Suspension: Fully independent suspension utilising unequal length wishbones, Ohlins 2-way adjustable dampers with coil over springs and adjustable front anti-roll bar.
If you don't trust my figures on the 240R see here: http://www.elises.co.uk/models/s2_ex...0R/details.pdf
Now the 240R's Ohlins suspension setup is far superior to that of the Exige S so pleeeeeeze tell me how is the S going to be quicker around any track?
As someone has said above, stop being so defensive about your car (note I have an Exige too and love it), there will ALWAYS be something quicker than the car *you* own
Happens to me all the time
02-26-2006, 03:48 PM
#255
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I am so tired of these internet pissing-contests. We're not going to convince each other of anything. My car is better than your car. Your car is better than my car. My car turns faster laps at this track. Your car turns faster laps at that track. Magazine A says my car is better. Magazine B says your car is better. Who cares any more? Go out and drive. Enjoy your car.