cstyles

Did you have a chance to drive a 997 GT3 with the shifter & cables before you purchased?

Unique to the 997 GT3 cars, the feedback from people who have installed them is that it makes the car worse than stock (whereas it's a major upgrade on most of the non-GT cars). I did the upgrade, Numeric shifter and cables in my 997.1 RS. Honestly, I wanted to love it. It was horrible, the cables specifically. Exactly as you mentioned, way too much effort without any additional precision. Also significantly increased the 'notchiness' of the gearbox over stock, no matter how many adjustments I made. I ended up removing the cables, replacing with new OEM cables, and keeping the shifter (and setting to the longest throw configuration). I enjoy it now.

Check out Obsessed Garage's youtube videos of his 997.2 GT3RS giveaway when he first got the car, it had the Numeric shifter and cables in it and he talks a lot about how bad the shifting is. He actually thought the gearbox was damaged and was going to send it out for rebuild before people in the comment sections of his videos pointed out the numeric stuff and to put it back to stock.

Just my experience with the same 'upgrade' and I've seen a lot of the same feedback elsewhere for the 997 GT3/RS platform.

jreifler

Second this. I will caveat that I've installed a Numeric on just about every P Car I've had, and am a fan of the product. I think it's top notch engineering.

BUT - Not a great mod on 997GT. I had it on my .2 and it was not an improvement. Overly stiff, beyond notchy, difficult to engage. Did not make quick / high-stress track shifting better, but instead noticeably more effortful.

Now, I just installed one on my new-to-me Cayman R, and it's fantastic. Probably the most impactful tactile mod you can do there.

For me - and what I did on my .1RS - the Function First upgrade kit is the ticket. The 7GT shifter is fantastic right out of the box, and just needs some of the slop and imprecision removed, and that's what the FF kit does. Replaces all the plastic-to-plastic mating points with metal, and adds metal bushings. It's perfect IMO.

KingSize.Hamster

So I got the Numeric cables + shifter in. The flex in the shifting has been vastly reduced. I never had a lot of slop on my factory setup (fairly low mileage car), but the flex really annoyed me. The factory setup felt as if I was bending/flexing a lot of plastic before my shifting effort is transmitted to the gearbox. Shifting effort is definitely increased with Numeric setup, but not overly so. I would probably say it's a 15-20 percent increase in effort, if at all, compared to stock.

Now comes the problematic part. Now there is a crazy rattle sound when car is idling with clutch engaged and at lower revs. Sound goes away when clutch is not engaged (i.e. clutch pedal is pressed in, similar to LWFW chatter). It sounded as if the cables are slapping the chassis under and transferring the vibration to the footwell area. Suddenly I feel like my transmission is in the front! The silicone loom/insulator does run all the way across the length of the shifter cable under the car, so the cable shouldn't be slapping any metal directly. Now I need to make a guess whether the cable is really the culprit of this rattle, or is it the shifter. As I am not installing these myself, it's a guessing game of which one I should take out and revert back to stock to get rid of the rattle while trying to keep the rigid character of the current setup as much as possible ...

Of course, the alternative is to go to Function First kit + cable ends, and probably fix some of the flex (hopefully). Though I'm sure the FF setup won't be as rigid.

Anyway, photo below to show the cables have been wrapped up ...

jreifler

There’s nothing in the shifter to rattle if mounting bolts and shift rod bolts are tight. You’re feeling / hearing it from pedal box area?? The cables are also pretty well fixed in there and shouldn’t rattle. Look at how they’re connected on the trans case. Nothing that should change with clutch engagement at all. Did your mechanic do any other work at the same time?? In that pic, the motor and trans is out.

KingSize.Hamster

Ya. Nothing is actually loose. The mechanic has checked to make sure everything's not loose or hitting anything before putting everything back in (he's the one who did my 981 GT4 as well, and that car had pretty much zero noise issue).

It's more like the metal parts are acting as an amplifier for all the noises/vibration. I know the cables aren't really hitting the chassis, but that's as close of a description I could get to.

Now I need to make a guess whether the cables are doing more of the noise transfer/amplification, or it's the shifter. Which do I keep to retain as much of the rigidity as I could while getting rid of the annoying noise.

Good catch. The engine and tranny were removed from the car for coolant pipe welding + clutch change (with LWFW, but the chatter/rattle is different from just LWFW in RS cars). I have replaced the transmission mount with a new factory one, and then changed engine mounts to 993 RS (rubber) ones. The mounts still looked pretty new when I took them out. Despite car being relatively low mileage (10,000miles) and everything else in very good condition, changing the mounts still made a big difference in terms of comfort and street drivability.

Anyway, basically the noise comes out somewhere in the shifter/floor area. Clearly there is nothing moving there, it's just sound getting transferred there.

jreifler

Hmmm. Usually when a car starts exhibiting a new symptom right after several things are changed / modified, it's one of those things not done properly. But there's just nothing in the shifter assembly that can rattle or even amplify a rattle from further back in the drivetrain. Nor the cables. Numeric cables definitely add some mechanical heft and "notchy" noise WHILE shifting, but they don't really transmit NVH from the trans back into the cabin.

Did you have a chance to drive it with the new clutch and LWFW independently of the Numeric install? Changing all of that and transmission and motor mounts at once is a lot of work on a lot of noise-generating parts. And there are new noises to be heard / felt if you just changed to RS 3.8 / 4.0 clutch and flywheel. It absolutely sounds and feels different to the stock .1 or .2 setup - especially in 1st / 2nd gear at idle speeds. Maybe you can compare to another similar car if there's one in your area? Or try to take some videos and post ?

KingSize.Hamster

Unfortunately I installed everything at once and wasn't able to compare the impact of each change. I did everything in one go to save labor and reduce number of times needed to take stuff up and down.

There is only one 7.1 non-RS I was able to compare to, with LWFW+Numeric setup locally. That car is quite loud in many other ways, so it's difficult to tell if the noise is there. My base 7.2 car is pretty much bone stock (or was at least), while that 7.1 car is full of mods.

That said, maybe I misled everyone a bit by saying that it's a rattle. It's more like a buzz to put it more accurately; so there is actually nothing loose. The buzz goes away when clutch is disengaged though, and sounds different from the well-known LWFW chatter. My car has the Dundon harmonic damper/pulley, so the LWFW chatter actually sounds much less noticeable in my car (or at least I think so).

In any case, let me try to take a video of the sound and see how goes. I can't say it's a loud buzz, but certainly audible enough. It's loud enough that a passenger would notice and hear. The Numeric setup did introduce a ticking sound into my 981 GT4, but it's so tiny that no one (including other 981 owners) noticed.

KingSize.Hamster

Video of the sound recorded from a phone:
when my thumb is up, then clutch pedal is released (I.e. clutch engaged)

In the video the sound kinda goes away when revving in neutral, but when car is moving, the buzz is still there especially around 1000-2500rpm. It’s much more of a medium frequency/tone buzz

powdrhound

What you are experiencing is completely normal for a LWFW set up used in conjunction with Cup or Numeric cables. The heavy duty metal cables act like an antenna amplifying all he various gearbox rattles which are moved forward. There is really no way around even though people try to use silicone sleeves and other tricks on the cable ends to try to reduce the rattles but it's really not effective. The heavy duty cables are a race part where noise is not a concern. I use them on my race car where every thing is hard mounted and noisy. It doesn't bother me. I would never put Cup cables or the Numerics on my street GT3 which has the LWFW set up. I don't track that car and use the stock cables there with zero complains. My suggestion, learn to live with the noise or put the normal cable in.

KingSize.Hamster

Thanks. Ya. Very likely I'll just put the stock cables back in. This is just a street car. Hopefully I won't lose too much of the stiffness/rigidity. The reason why I went for this setup is due to the amount of flex (not slop or play) when I'm shifting. It feels like my effort is spent on flexing some plastic or pushing through some rubber along the way before it gets to actual shifting.

bucky56477

When I did the numeric shifter and cables in my 7.2 RS it sounded almost identical to this too. I ended up switching the cables back to OEM ones for the same reason. Too much noise. Shifter alone is not as crisp and firm, but a good compromise for a street car. I'm still running this setup.

KingSize.Hamster

Ok great. Thanks. Ya, will just revert back to stock and maybe get the cable ends from Function First then ...

Wonderdan

2nd this - I’ve had all the combos… now I’m on stock shifter w/weights and numeric cables, I see benefits to them all, I like the numeric shifter for track better though when my brain is on auto pilot it really is butta, but for street its a bit loosey goosey

the sound you hear is normal, just never let the clutch out and you’ll be fine

KingSize.Hamster

Interesting. With stock shifter + Numeric cables, is the buzz still there? Seems like stock shifter + Numeric cables is the less-common combo.

Basically I don't want the buzz (or more so my wife is really annoyed by it), but I want to retain the rigidity as much as possible

The throw length doesn't matter to me. I leave the Numeric at the longest-setting anyway

Wonderdan

you mean the rattle that causes my wife make a face of disgust cause it’s a $300k car? Yea she quickly forgets about it when I driver over bumps and she is reminded how impractical the car really is for date night