When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I would drain the transaxle and analyze the oil. Who did maintenance before this shop? It could be the wrong oil was used, and the level might have been low. Also, check the drive shaft bolts, there are threads on failures. If on the dyno someone messed up, a jolt to the transaxle could have damaged it.
I would have a complete VAL done on PIWIS, and I believe you said the car was taken to a Porsche dealer(?)
I would also look into over revs- this engine might have been spun up past the redline(and I would hope not)
Having your own PIWIS is a good idea- you can do a VAL anytime you want, and if something is wrong with the car, compare to the last saved VAL-
If the car is indeed at a Porsche dealer, wait to see what the report is. If they do drain the transaxle, see if the quantity can be measured, and try to find the records of the gear oil change if one was ever done-
With all due respect, I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make? Who even mentioned I got an exhaust for a gt3 rs
With all due respect that was a typo. If you would have taken he time to read the rest of my post, you would have realized that. I will correct it now.
On to your exhaust. I don't see any difference between the two cars bumpers from the pictures above, but I am no expert. I also see that FVD sells an exhaust that fits both cars and they way the exhaust looks, there is no adjustment for a different bumper. That system is welded so looks like no real adjustments can be made. I only see the ability to adjust the entire system right or left. This leads me to say, if they shipped the system to you and then you walked the system back into their shop to have it installed, that seems like a great chance to prove it doesn't fit and either get your cash back or have the system exchanged for the correct part. Why let them start butchering up the system. I would have stopped that madness. I realize that it's the the elephant in the room right now and I think you'll need some sort of mediation to get to the bottom of this other issue. Gather evidence!
Do you have a prior DME reading and a current one? Do you have a theory on how this happened that you can break down and explain? Maybe this happened on the dyno where the new employees shifted your car while the drum was spinning at top speed. Maybe they hit the fuel cutoff limit and that did something. You stated that you stayed there the entire day. Did you observe anything out of the ordinary while you were watching your car? I'm super quick to speak up when a shop has my car. Even the smallest things, like don't sit in my driver's seat with your leg hanging out of the car.
🥷 Edit: Jsut read JB's reply. Follow that to a tee. You should get your answer.
Last edited by RAudi Driver; 06-10-2023 at 02:05 PM.
Never noticed until this thread that the GT2RS does not have those shark gill cooling vents
pity for the 2RS Ive always thought this was one of the coolest most distinctive design elements of any modern roadgoing 911
That said, I do believe that the GT2 and GT2RS use the same exhaust:
Never noticed until this thread that the GT2RS does not have those shark gill cooling vents
pity for the 2RS Ive always thought this was one of the coolest most distinctive design elements of any modern roadgoing 911
That said, I do believe that the GT2 and GT2RS use the same exhaust:
I would drain the transaxle and analyze the oil. Who did maintenance before this shop? It could be the wrong oil was used, and the level might have been low. Also, check the drive shaft bolts, there are threads on failures. If on the dyno someone messed up, a jolt to the transaxle could have damaged it.
I would have a complete VAL done on PIWIS, and I believe you said the car was taken to a Porsche dealer(?)
I would also look into over revs- this engine might have been spun up past the redline(and I would hope not)
Having your own PIWIS is a good idea- you can do a VAL anytime you want, and if something is wrong with the car, compare to the last saved VAL-
If the car is indeed at a Porsche dealer, wait to see what the report is. If they do drain the transaxle, see if the quantity can be measured, and try to find the records of the gear oil change if one was ever done-
JB
That’s a strong point I should of emphasised on. I had the car undergo a full service 1,000 kms before all these mis-haps. Part of that was changing the transmission fluid. If there was something wrong with my gearbox there would be metal particles in the fluid.
I’m speaking about my experience with evidence. I have a report from Porsche and another report from a gearbox expert here in Dubai; both picked up that the damage done was from the sudden stress caused on the differential which transferred onto the gearbox. A fellow member also made another point that could be the reason’ the car did cut off on the dyno. I’m not sure if this is the sole reason, but that did happen and I have this on video
Never noticed until this thread that the GT2RS does not have those shark gill cooling vents
pity for the 2RS Ive always thought this was one of the coolest most distinctive design elements of any modern roadgoing 911
That said, I do believe that the GT2 and GT2RS use the same exhaust:
Yes sir, the bumpers are completely different. Especially the part where the exhaust comes out from. The opening for the 2rs is wider than on the standard gt2. The issue is that the size of the tips are much bigger and the angle they made the tips are pointed more to the side than how the standard cars have them pointed.
again; I requested my tips to look OEM but I did not get what I requested
I only mentioned the exhaust to give an example about their incompetence. It’s a $5.5k mistake I paid for but right now it seems like peanuts compared to the $41k mistake they made which they expect me to pay for
With all due respect that was a typo. If you would have taken he time to read the rest of my post, you would have realized that. I will correct it now.
On to your exhaust. I don't see any difference between the two cars bumpers from the pictures above, but I am no expert. I also see that FVD sells an exhaust that fits both cars and they way the exhaust looks, there is no adjustment for a different bumper. That system is welded so looks like no real adjustments can be made. I only see the ability to adjust the entire system right or left. This leads me to say, if they shipped the system to you and then you walked the system back into their shop to have it installed, that seems like a great chance to prove it doesn't fit and either get your cash back or have the system exchanged for the correct part. Why let them start butchering up the system. I would have stopped that madness. I realize that it's the the elephant in the room right now and I think you'll need some sort of mediation to get to the bottom of this other issue. Gather evidence!
Do you have a prior DME reading and a current one? Do you have a theory on how this happened that you can break down and explain? Maybe this happened on the dyno where the new employees shifted your car while the drum was spinning at top speed. Maybe they hit the fuel cutoff limit and that did something. You stated that you stayed there the entire day. Did you observe anything out of the ordinary while you were watching your car? I'm super quick to speak up when a shop has my car. Even the smallest things, like don't sit in my driver's seat with your leg hanging out of the car.
🥷 Edit: Jsut read JB's reply. Follow that to a tee. You should get your answer.
You have a few good points here
I explained why the exhaust didn’t fit properly on my other posts. I’ll tell you again from the beginning.
I was going to order the capristo exhaust and then I chose es motor’s exhaust since I was doing a bolt on package with them.
Obviously when you pay so much money for an exhaust from a known automotive tuner you have expect to get the correct product.
Things can go wrong, and I respect a person more when they fix their mistake rather than make excuses. Now when I got the exhaust I sold my europipe (biggest mistake), so i had no other exhaust at the time. Porsche tried fitting it but it simply did not fit. (I ended up borrowing a friends spare exhaust to use until i took the car to es motor, hence why i ended up paying for 4 fitment installations)
the reason it did not fit are from 2 reasons;
1) the size of the tips & 2) the angle of the tips.
Now any 997 gt2 exhaust can be installed on a 997 gt2rs (both cars have the same engine)
but the bumpers are completely different. The area in which the tips come out from the bumper are also different. The 2rs has a wider area than the standard gt2.
Going back to the fitment attempt; Even when you adjust the exhaust, both tips on either side would not fit.
When i flagged this to es motor they were adamant that it’s not their mistake and the problem was that “Porsche cannot fit the exhaust on”. I picked up on the issue when they sent me a picture of my exhaust being fit on a gt2rs that they had to test before shipping it out.
Even at this point after mentioning that the bumpers are different, they were still adamant that they would be able to fit it.
When they came they spent nearly 6 hours until they were able to get on the car.
**It wasn’t until they cut the exhaust from the connecting x pipe until it fit. At this point i just wanted my car to be done. I didn’t want to wait another month for a new exhaust; which is my mistake. I shouldn’t of accepted their incompetent solution. I paid for something & i should get the correct product.
Anyway, again i want to emphasise that this is just one of the many mistakes they made and I only mentioned this to showcase their standards.
about the dyno you made a point about cut off that I didn’t think twice about. I know that this happened because i have a video of the car when they had it on the dyno and it cut off. Can you explain more about if this can effect and how?
i do have a few pictures of all this bs but i need time to find everything because the majority of them are on my old phone
Last edited by ammein ramley; 06-11-2023 at 11:42 AM.
Ammein, please be objective and specific-these situations are beneficial to others-what year is your car? When you said there was service performed 1000 Km, what was done, where, and do you have receipt to look at, with detailed work order? What diagnosis tool was used if any? As long as the correct viscosity was used in the transaxle fill up, preferably Mobil Delvac, then that's that. If there was a VAL done through Piwis, you would have a record of the car's state up to then to compare. As it stands, if the car is at a Porsche dealership, ask for a VAL, what codes have been thrown if the car has any(?)
Did someone drop the clutch while in the wrong gear and revving your engine to 12000 rpm? Hopefully not-I've never done a dyno but you can see horror stories all day on YouTube-if the car was screamed to redline, clutch pulled in then dropped, I imagine the inertia is enough to cause damage. Others with dyno experience and knowledge could chime in on the subject. You said something about the car "cutting off' on the dyno-did this happen? Is there a video?
The reason I'm bringing this up is to indeed be very objective, specific, even though speculation is part of continuing the investigation into what happened.
Being that a GT2 is a rear wheel drive, very powerful engine with an enormous amount of torque going there compared to a GT3 and 4WD Turbo model, as I recall, the drive shafts are stronger to handle the torque-I have a vague memory of a thread about GT2 driveshafts and bolts, superseding and improved parts etc. A complete report should include a visual inspection of everything-
I can look up the transaxle and driveshaft 2023 PETKA for the latest part numbers, there is usually a list of discontinued items, with the latest ones. The point is to investigate everything, and as mentioned I would see what happened to driveshafts, differential and basically the whole transaxle/gearbox-
Since PIWIS is now so affordable, especially for those who already have a laptop, I suggest getting one. You can do regular scans, clear codes, perform tests, look at workloads, VALS, Vehicle Handover, and you always have a current record of the car's state. Other people will benefit from all the information of what happened to your car. Also, I'm not aware of the major or minor differences between the transaxles on 997 GT3 GT3 RS, GT2, GT2 RS, Turbo(it is different with the 4WD system). The GT3 and RS have slightly different gearing, specifics I don't recall but others know.
If the car's damage is limited to the transaxle-and I assume the differential damage might have damaged the gearbox part of the transaxle-then have this in minute detail, try to get the. shop to pay for the damages if it was indeed dyno incompetence.
It could be that they used the exhaust for 997 Turbo and not GT2. Maybe have the stock exhaust re-installed, and pick up a used exhaust-there are a lot of used performance exhaust options, even if you have them shipped to Dubai, the correct one should have no installation issues at all.
Post the result of the investigation into the drivetrain damage. Was the clutch also damaged, etc? And as mentioned, post the year your car was built, and I can look up the part number of the complete transaxle-if it has to be completely rebuilt, where would it be sent to?
Consider Albert Motorsport in Germany-there is a section on their site with complete teardown, upgrades, and they would do a complete analysis.
You could consider this an improvement if you opt for their upgrades- https://9lf.de/gb/gt3/236-996-997-tt...n-porsche.html
From what I have seen, they've had a close relationship with Porsche racing division, even carbon fiber body for the race cars, etc.
So maybe the costs of repairing the transaxle won't be as bad as you thought-
I explained why the exhaust didn’t fit properly on my other posts. I’ll tell you again from the beginning.
I was going to order the capristo exhaust and then I chose es motor’s exhaust since I was doing a bolt on package with them.
Obviously when you pay so much money for an exhaust from a known automotive tuner you have expect to get the correct product.
Things can go wrong, and I respect a person more when they fix their mistake rather than make excuses. Now when I got the exhaust I sold my europipe (biggest mistake), so i had no other exhaust at the time. Porsche tried fitting it but it simply did not fit. (I ended up borrowing a friends spare exhaust to use until i took the car to es motor, hence why i ended up paying for 4 fitment installations)
the reason it did not fit are from 2 reasons;
1) the size of the tips & 2) the angle of the tips.
Now any 997 gt2 exhaust can be installed on a 997 gt2rs (both cars have the same engine)
but the bumpers are completely different. The area in which the tips come out from the bumper are also different. The 2rs has a wider area than the standard gt2.
Going back to the fitment attempt; Even when you adjust the exhaust, both tips on either side would not fit.
When i flagged this to es motor they were adamant that it’s not their mistake and the problem was that “Porsche cannot fit the exhaust on”. I picked up on the issue when they sent me a picture of my exhaust being fit on a gt2rs that they had to test before shipping it out.
Even at this point after mentioning that the bumpers are different, they were still adamant that they would be able to fit it.
When they came they spent nearly 6 hours until they were able to get on the car.
**It wasn’t until they cut the exhaust from the connecting x pipe until it fit. At this point i just wanted my car to be done. I didn’t want to wait another month for a new exhaust; which is my mistake. I shouldn’t of accepted their incompetent solution. I paid for something & i should get the correct product.
Anyway, again i want to emphasise that this is just one of the many mistakes they made and I only mentioned this to showcase their standards.
about the dyno you made a point about cut off that I didn’t think twice about. I know that this happened because i have a video of the car when they had it on the dyno and it cut off. Can you explain more about if this can effect and how?
i do have a few pictures of all this bs but i need time to find everything because the majority of them are on my old phone
Thank you for the clear and concise explanation. I agree that I would suspect that something happened on the dyno . Did you authorize and pay for the dyno run? If so, what was the reason? Wanted to know HP numbers?
Last edited by RAudi Driver; 06-11-2023 at 10:40 PM.
Says he was doing their "bolt on package" which i suspect was an exhaust + tune. Pretty standard for 997 turbo models.
ES motor is all over the standing mile stuff - big HP - risk /reward.
The truly unfortunate part of the story is that the damage is already done.
The exhaust isn't this guy's point. It's the rear diff and transmission. And even if you were at a Toyota dealership, the great fact is they didn't work on those parts of the car. So the only way to point blame is the dyo, which this place appears to do day in and day out.
I know you said you maintain the car, but that doesn't mean the rear diff will last forever on a car that is 15 years old with 60k miles, has mega-torque, and that you were tuning for more torque. Maybe the dyno test was the tipping point, but that is different than the root cause. What if it was "perfectly maintained" and 100k miles? Or 150k miles?
Yes, I would use a PWIS like now and see if they did something wrong, but still I'm trying to find a way to blame them as the cause. I'm not trying to bust your nuts, just looking at the reality.
Last edited by Upscale Audio; 06-12-2023 at 03:01 PM.
I have had the car checked and got 3 different reports. One of the reports are from Porsche and 2 other Porsche tuning brands. They all said the same thing. As to my understanding in a simplified way, they caused severe stress on the differential. These vibrations were then transferred to the transmission.
How exactly I cannot give you an answer. At the end of the day I handed my car in perfect condition. When i received the car back it took less than 50 kms until it broke down in the middle of the highway.
First there was a whining noise (turned out to be the diff) & at the same time the gears were either not going into place at all or it would get stuck in gears.
At first they said they would be accountable so i agreed to be reasonable and have the parts repaired rather than replaced. They wanted time to check for parts at a lower price. This took months. When the time came to pay they only wanted to pay for an after market diff and came up with a million & one excuses not to take accountability.
It has left me no choice but to expose the truth publicly.
About the exhaust; I paid $5,500 for their new titanium exhaust. They gave me an exhaust that fits a 997 gt2rs. How did this affect me? I had to pay 3 different installation attempts which all failed with Porsche . At the end I handed it over to es to fit it when they came to Dubai. They had to cut parts of the exhaust off just for it to fit. And yes they charged me for that installation as well.
This is not something you expect when you pay this much money. To clarify, this has nothing to do with the sever damage they caused. This was just another mishap of theirs that again, I had to pay for their own mistakes.
They could of easily took responsibility, fixed the car & gave it back just how i gave it to them, but hey, you get to see how people really are when things go wrong, not when things are going good.
Morally and ethically, when you take something, you give it back in the same condition.
The exhaust isn't this guy's point. It's the rear diff and transmission. And even if you were at a Toyota dealership, the great fact is they didn't work on those parts of the car. So the only way to point blame is the dyo, which this place appears to do day in and day out.
I know you said you maintain the car, but that doesn't mean the rear diff will last forever on a car that is 15 years old with 60k miles, has mega-torque, and that you were tuning for more torque. Maybe the dyno test was the tipping point, but that is different than the root cause. What if it was "perfectly maintained" and 100k miles? Or 150k miles?
Yes, I would use a PWIS like now and see if they did something wrong, but still I'm trying to find a way to blame them as the cause. I'm not trying to bust your nuts, just looking at the reality.
if the car wasn’t maintained regularly and thrashed around the track or was in drag races and poorly maintained yes, your point would be valid. But at the standard my car was maintained and for the damage to be apparent immediately after I drove off with the transmission not working at all compared to working smooth like butter before it was handed over to them?
There should be some logic here
06-10-2023 | 12:41 PM
