Hope this helps protect someone else as something is very wrong with this seller and/or this car.

22k-Mile 2007 Porsche 911 GT3 for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $116,000 on May 19, 2023 (Lot #107,764) | Bring a Trailer

I currently have a couple P cars, 86 951 and a 06 C2S.... I have been wanting a black on black 997 GT3 for a long time and was thrilled to win the auction above Friday. I only found the auction Wednesday and reached out to seller via contact button... didn't hear back but honestly wasn't that worried as I did not think I would win - my max was going to be 120 for this particular example and my 108 bid with a couple days left did not feel safe... On the final day I reached out again and nothing so I tagged seller in a comment and then I guess he figured it out and called me. No biggie - sounded like a nice man, 60 years old said retired porsche mechanic and was very easy going. My main reason for calling was around 2 items... PPI and payment. He said he had a PPI from preparing for sale and would happily send that to me or that I could get another one. The car was safe in his garage and was not in a rush to get it out. He said he would drive the car to me if I wanted as he is happy to road trip, I said no but I might be able to fly in but not for 10 days or worse case I will get it shipped and he said no issue. So great. Send me the PPI and lets see what happens in the autcion. The PPI didn't come and I called, he said he was out and didn't have the ability from his phone to send it..... seemed strange but I thought maybe hes a bit older and just not quick with technology, all still feels okay. I ended up winning and was thrilled....

Had another conversation with him and his tone was changing - he was just focused on wiring the money right away, I was still waiting on the PPI and seeing that was likely not to happend I booked a flight for 7 days out to fly in. He was stalling a bit but said he would send the PPI.... In summary that turned into he couldn't find it so I called a shop 5 mins from him that is Porsche only and spoke the GM. Guy knows these cars well so I called seller to set up an appointment (my dime) and he refused to take the car to the shop... said he doesn't trust anybody with his car so on and so forth. He went back to the wire info. We went back and forth on its an hour appointment and I said its 5 mins from you and you can stay with the car, etc..... NOPE. Okay red flags flying here but I'm vested a bit. So I said okay forget the PPI and transport I’ll fly in and drive back - I will see you saturday and I can bring a cashiers check or who do you bank with as we can complete there for the wire (flight got in at 10 so trying to make sure bank would be open etc.). He said that was not an option. He would only accept wire and transport - no fly in. Now he is quoting BAT policies - he says nowhere does it say you have to pick up in person and that the auction is final as is. He said you bought the car AS IS so send payment. What the hell. I was still being polite as trying to get info out of him so I calmed him down and said did you get a "raw deal" when you bought this car and that is why you are so frustrated as this is just not a normal experience..... for some reason that worked a bit - he opened up that when he got the car it wasn't running, it was misfiring and throwing codes, he muttered that all the fluids needed changing that is was USING OIL, and that it took his shop 3 months to get it running.... RED FLAGS.... the whole conversation was very strange like half his personality was trying to lie and say the car was great and the other half was putting in bits of truth etc. I asked what took threee months if it was just plugs and fluids and he said well it needed tires too..... that makes no sense... then he stopped talking, ended the call and stopped answering my phone calls.

Since that call I have searched this car out and on this great site, in the cars for sale thread, the original BAT auction back in 2020 was called out for a bunch of red flags which are now obvious in hindsight - search the VIN here. I have also searched this man on linked in etc. His whole career is documented and has never had a job even close to holding a wrench. so what a lie to try and make someone feel comfortable......

Looking at receipts further supports he is not a mechanic as he has paid to have someone else do very basic work etc. Additionally, the spark plugs and o2 sensors failing makes me think the car really might be burning oil although I know this can just be age and use related too....

Bottom line once he figured out I knew my stuff, as I asked when I fly in please dont have the car warmed up, I want to see a pure cold start and just make sure everything is as represented is when he freaked. I mean basic things - so he said he is not comfortable with in person.

I really do not want someone else to fall for this - I need to fight with BAT to get my $5K back which better happen but I am more so worried who is going to end up falling for this guys "charm" and lies.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience on the seller and the car. Unfortunate what happened, but coming from someone that has bought a 911 in the past that was not as represented, let me tell you that you're better off finding all of this out now and losing a bit of money such as the flight cost, rather than ending up with a not as represented car.

 

Sorry to hear about that Joe. I'm hoping that you can get your deposit back. I would definitely call my credit card company, BAT, my attorney and everyone else who will listen. You don't deserve to lose $5,000. I don't know that platform very well so don't know if you have a defense, but it's sure worth trying.

Was this the same car in post 3857 and down the page? If so, I have to see what I originally said. Hehe.

FBAT!
They flagged most of my comments on that old auction. I was trying to save a buyer from heartache!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...he-911-gt3-24/

 

Looks like it - I didn't find any of this until after the auction close. I generally trust that most people are reasonable and not looking to completely cheat someone. What I mean is if you tell me you are happy for me to fly in and take it for a PPI or that you will send me a PPI then I trust that is the deal. I never expected the auction to end and him to renege and say AS IS. Such a strange experience as I can't imagine who would not want to either see the car at pick up, have a neutral 3rd party verify its condition or lastley use an escrow account to make sure car and title arrive before funds release.

 

Ive been down this road with attorneys

1) BAT may give your money back (or apply toward future auctions) but they don’t have to. You bought this guys email and phone number not a car, you essentially paid $5k for right of first refusal and non-refundable PPI contingency

2) You absolutely don’t have to buy the car and if you do lemon laws etc to not apply. If there are issues on an as-is it will cost you more to prove he omitted them intentionally than the car is worth.

 

You did nothing out of the ordinary and pretty much managed to get his true colors to show. I wish he would come on here to explain himself. Maybe his BAT screen name was a tell tale sign.

 

Although I think you are right I’m some ways the reason BAT needs to refund me is I am not stopping the transaction. He will not allow me to pick the car up in person! He can’t force me to pay to ship a car, he has to allow me to pick up.

 

Did you guys notice that bringatrailer deleted several comments that called this out as a scam?

 

Because shipping is an implied contract, IFRS crap. I agree, payment method and shipping is up to you… he’s trying to reduce his risk of you backing out.

The seller has the right to NOT sell you the car period just because he doesn’t like you and BATs contracts would still most likely hold up in their favor and take both your deposits.

I think you have a higher chance of just having BAT sympathizing with you for brand reasons by saying “car may have issues for various reasons and he won’t let me see it in person before shipping it.”

Anything that says you have to follow the process is comical, what process… this isn’t EBay with implied warranties and omissions.

 

BaT won’t refund the buyers fee. The contract clearly states that all inspections should be completed prior to bidding and your bid is binding, with no conditions. Hopefully they will extend a good-will gesture and refund the money to protect the brand, but legally they are certainly not obligated to.

 

understood but a seller has to allow for pick up of goods? If I flew out there and the car has “developed” (between auction end and fight arriving) some massive issue. Won’t start, house burned down, crashed etc. to where I can’t pick it up then the sale is null and void. That’s what seems to have happened here. He won’t let me pick it up. Goods are not available.

Regardless of legal language BAT as a business would want buyers to feel they have some basic protection in just getting scammed. Otherwise their platform would lose traffic and thus significant value. I’m confident BAT will do the right thing here, the real issue is with this seller

 

Seller won't live up to his end of the contract. There was and offer, an acceptance and consideration. Broken Contract if he stopped communication!

I read over on Reddit that BAT refunded the buyer when the seller backed out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BringATrail...fuses_to_sell/

go get that cash Joe!

 

What I find most troubling is the practice of BaT deleting any comments that raise any concerns about safety of buying on the platform or a seller's actions.

I really love the community on BaT but the idea that the normal process is to wire some stranger the money for a car and hope it's delivered as expected is highly questionable.

I don't know how often things go wrong, hopefully not often, but I don't have much confidence that we have transparency about that from BaT.

IMO the platform needs to be updated to allow for better buyer and seller protections and perhaps a seller feedback or ratings mechanism, even a community forum to discuss issues. I'm sure there are arguments against these ideas but it seems highly likely that as BaT has grown substantially in popularity it will bring out bad actors (be they shady dealers or downright fraud attempts). Buyers have very little leverage (despite supplying the vast majority of BaTs revenue) and recourse.

To be clear I love the platform and I think it's extremely valuable to the enthusiast community and retail buyers generally, but I do worry about the false sense of security projected by BaT and the lack of safe guards
guard.

One last comment: I will note that the idea of doing a PPI after the auction has always seemed a bit off to me. As a seller who invested time in an auction I would not expect the buyer to have the option to purchase the vehicle, but rather they have made a commitment to purchase. But IANAL and it is interesting to read some interpretations here of the responsibility of the parties.

Buyer please keep us posted. I'm very thankful to rennlist as a platform to discuss these issues without censorship by BaT staff.

GLWTA
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Hi Joe,

I had a very similar experience, but unlike you I followed through with it, and threw tons on money at the problem. I should have waited for a better situation, sigh...

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...and-story.html

Good luck getting things worked out, I would investigate to see if there was any fraud here...

Ray

 

This isn’t how bat works. Do your diligence before the auction closes. no different than any other auction.

this isn’t Amazon or eBay. This is selling used cars.