GT3 Companion - 993 or GT4 ?
12-05-2022, 04:12 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
What year was that 930? Loos like a 3.2 Carrera to me, not a wide body turbo….
I miss my 964T and will own another one some day.
glad to hear you are keeping the 997.
I miss my 964T and will own another one some day.
glad to hear you are keeping the 997.
12-05-2022, 04:26 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
A 930 is the 911 Turbo of the same time as your 3.2, they are a completely different animal.
I’d say try finding one to drive, while older technology wise they are a lot of fun and a very different experience than the 997 or GT4.
I’d say try finding one to drive, while older technology wise they are a lot of fun and a very different experience than the 997 or GT4.
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jreifler (12-05-2022)
12-05-2022, 10:26 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
You really should drive the 993. In my personal opinion, they are pretty boring bone stock. Especially when compared to a gt3 (I have never driven a gt4). Relatively low power, long gears and shifter action, suspension is not very crisp.
I just sold a heavily modified 993 and it was awesome. RS uprights, solid or adjustable suspension bits/bobs, pss10 coilovers, seats, rollbar, RS shifter + golden rod, RS cams, a chip, full exhaust, probably close to 100 lbs pulled out of it...etc. It was very fun to drive at the track, I enjoyed it on the street but my fiancé never wanted to be inside of it. If you don't care that it is slow, go for it but I would certainly recommend the suspension and shifter work. If I were after a pure street car, I would probably go for a 3.2 targa. My dad has an '86 targa and I really like driving it in pure stock form.
I personally would want some more variety than two probably similarly matched gt cars. An old aircooled car would fit the bill nicely, imo.
I just sold a heavily modified 993 and it was awesome. RS uprights, solid or adjustable suspension bits/bobs, pss10 coilovers, seats, rollbar, RS shifter + golden rod, RS cams, a chip, full exhaust, probably close to 100 lbs pulled out of it...etc. It was very fun to drive at the track, I enjoyed it on the street but my fiancé never wanted to be inside of it. If you don't care that it is slow, go for it but I would certainly recommend the suspension and shifter work. If I were after a pure street car, I would probably go for a 3.2 targa. My dad has an '86 targa and I really like driving it in pure stock form.
I personally would want some more variety than two probably similarly matched gt cars. An old aircooled car would fit the bill nicely, imo.
I’ve owned a dozen GT3 (RS) variants from 04 through 2019 and in my opinion the 997 GT3 is just the most fun. Just an amazingly balanced car, modern yet still feels mechanical and direct. They have good power, great sound, and once you’re comfortable they are easy to control…slide beautifully. Ive owned 2 GT4’s and also great and capable cars I just have the childhood affection for 911’s.
I read a few comments about air cooled cars being underpowered and yes they are BUT (as noted above @lcrain ) a properly set up air cooled car is absolutely amazing on the right roads or track. I live 30 minutes west of Philadelphia and I am surrounded by tight, twisty, hilly roads and my air cooled cars are infinitely more fun than a modern high HP car IMHO.
Here is a pic of my recently departed GT3….lightly modified and one of my current air cooled cars a 993 Supercup tribute. 2600 pounds, 285 HP at the wheels, remote canister JRZ’s, monoballs, CAE shifter, LSD etc.
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12-05-2022, 11:12 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I’ve owned a dozen GT3 (RS) variants from 04 through 2019 and in my opinion the 997 GT3 is just the most fun. Just an amazingly balanced car, modern yet still feels mechanical and direct. They have good power, great sound, and once you’re comfortable they are easy to control…slide beautifully. Ive owned 2 GT4’s and also great and capable cars I just have the childhood affection for 911’s.
I read a few comments about air cooled cars being underpowered and yes they are BUT (as noted above @lcrain ) a properly set up air cooled car is absolutely amazing on the right roads or track. I live 30 minutes west of Philadelphia and I am surrounded by tight, twisty, hilly roads and my air cooled cars are infinitely more fun than a modern high HP car IMHO
I read a few comments about air cooled cars being underpowered and yes they are BUT (as noted above @lcrain ) a properly set up air cooled car is absolutely amazing on the right roads or track. I live 30 minutes west of Philadelphia and I am surrounded by tight, twisty, hilly roads and my air cooled cars are infinitely more fun than a modern high HP car IMHO
Part of my motivation is that both GT cars are really too fast to be driven responsibly / enjoyably on the street. We also have a lot of great country backroads that I typically drive at least weekly in nice weather. The 993 could be a perfect fit for that, C&C, shows, rallies in the Ozarks and Smokies, etc. To the point on mods - fully prepared and excited to dive in. Already have my list in development. Coilovers at RS height, bushings, bump-steer, short shift, exhaust, semi-solid motor mounts, etc. It’ll be done right.
12-06-2022, 09:39 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
Love it. You might be presaging my future there with the 7.2 in track form. And that Supercup tribute is stunning.
Part of my motivation is that both GT cars are really too fast to be driven responsibly / enjoyably on the street. We also have a lot of great country backroads that I typically drive at least weekly in nice weather. The 993 could be a perfect fit for that, C&C, shows, rallies in the Ozarks and Smokies, etc. To the point on mods - fully prepared and excited to dive in. Already have my list in development. Coilovers at RS height, bushings, bump-steer, short shift, exhaust, semi-solid motor mounts, etc. It’ll be done right.
Part of my motivation is that both GT cars are really too fast to be driven responsibly / enjoyably on the street. We also have a lot of great country backroads that I typically drive at least weekly in nice weather. The 993 could be a perfect fit for that, C&C, shows, rallies in the Ozarks and Smokies, etc. To the point on mods - fully prepared and excited to dive in. Already have my list in development. Coilovers at RS height, bushings, bump-steer, short shift, exhaust, semi-solid motor mounts, etc. It’ll be done right.
That was my thinking as well and couldn’t be happier. You can and must push the air cooled car a bit harder but the connection and feel and sensation of speed is fantastic. Sounds like you have a good plan in place but I’m happy to share any feedback or thoughts on mods. You can search my forum name in the 964 section to see two builds i profiled in pretty good detail. This 993 is an awesome car and great to drive, my Rubystone 964 build is probably a bit better build all the way around with a 3.8L and 993 6 speed gearbox with shorter gears than RS spec so that car is the quickest non turbo air cooled car Ive ever owned or driven. The beauty of the air cooled is they are a blank canvas and because the technology and engineering is so old each mod is noticeable and appreciated.
12-06-2022, 10:29 AM
#52
I don't know if things have changed with regards to bump steer but the consensus I recall is that to run RS ride height you need RS uprights (or equivalent) to avoid bump steer.
To me the gearing was the biggest detractor to my 993s fun. Each shift takes you out of the power band. A friend of mine has a 993 he built from the ground up with short gears, less weight (2600 lbs), MCS coilovers and a hot 3.6 build. Again, there are plenty of ways to go faster but I don't know if you can have a much better time on track than that. But to make it so fun on the track made it even less fun on the street...
To me the gearing was the biggest detractor to my 993s fun. Each shift takes you out of the power band. A friend of mine has a 993 he built from the ground up with short gears, less weight (2600 lbs), MCS coilovers and a hot 3.6 build. Again, there are plenty of ways to go faster but I don't know if you can have a much better time on track than that. But to make it so fun on the track made it even less fun on the street...
12-07-2022, 07:00 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
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luv2race (12-09-2022)
12-10-2022, 10:04 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
12-10-2022, 01:33 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
I can relate about your CS. One of my 993s was one of the ones that "got away". I sold it for $60k in 2009 and now I'd have to pay triple to buy another low mile S. And then what? Will I drive it without a care? Likely not and I'm not one to have cars in glass boxes. Sad conundrum these values put drivers in. That CS is a dream car.
12-11-2022, 11:39 AM
#56
Racer
As someone who owns a 993 as well I can say it makes a great companion. It’s old enough to give you a vintage experience but new enough to be able to drive it all the time without worry.
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jreifler (12-11-2022)
12-11-2022, 01:58 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ThePhanatic
As someone who owns a 993 as well I can say it makes a great companion. It’s old enough to give you a vintage experience but new enough to be able to drive it all the time without worry.
). If you want a Goldilocks, not too cold, not too hot experience, 993 might be as good as it gets.
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jreifler (12-11-2022)
12-11-2022, 07:06 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
A base 993 experience was lost on me earlier in my Porsche/car enthusiast hobby. I thought "meh?!" compared to some other more extreme cars I had driven or lusted after. After owning and experiencing most of the more extreme character cars I wanted, I can now come back to prior experiences in a 993 c2/c4, c3.2 or even base boxsters! (as example: cars that do not blow you away at the turn of the key or jab of the throttle); I now realize the subtle but amazing experience they produce. But u have to really turn down the volume and notice the details. My taste for a lot of things in life has followed this path. If you are looking at any version of a "punch in the mouth" experience, stay away from a 993 Carrera and go to any modern p-gt or even much older 911 (or other manufacturer ). If you want a Goldilocks, not too cold, not too hot experience, 993 might be as good as it gets.
). If you want a Goldilocks, not too cold, not too hot experience, 993 might be as good as it gets.
12-11-2022, 07:23 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
That being said I have ended up with a cgt and 1965 911 which are probably the antithesis of my base boxster or 993 philosophy above. So my actions don't follow my words 
However any adds or swaps will go more subtle and less ott hair-on-fire experiences. These two animals are at the extreme for that for Porsche. Now that I'm no longer in NYC full time, something a bit more practical would get more use. Aka 993 or base boxster.
997 gt3/rs is still my vote for all-in-one-box street/track fun with a hair of modern function mixed in.
However any adds or swaps will go more subtle and less ott hair-on-fire experiences. These two animals are at the extreme for that for Porsche. Now that I'm no longer in NYC full time, something a bit more practical would get more use. Aka 993 or base boxster.997 gt3/rs is still my vote for all-in-one-box street/track fun with a hair of modern function mixed in.
Last edited by Jrtaylor9; 12-11-2022 at 07:25 PM.
12-11-2022, 08:16 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
That being said I have ended up with a cgt and 1965 911 which are probably the antithesis of my base boxster or 993 philosophy above. So my actions don't follow my words However any adds or swaps will go more subtle and less ott hair-on-fire experiences. These two animals are at the extreme for that for Porsche. Now that I'm no longer in NYC full time, something a bit more practical would get more use. Aka 993 or base boxster.
997 gt3/rs is still my vote for all-in-one-box street/track fun with a hair of modern function mixed in.
However any adds or swaps will go more subtle and less ott hair-on-fire experiences. These two animals are at the extreme for that for Porsche. Now that I'm no longer in NYC full time, something a bit more practical would get more use. Aka 993 or base boxster.997 gt3/rs is still my vote for all-in-one-box street/track fun with a hair of modern function mixed in.