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Don’t hesitate to track the gt3. It will be the best decision you will make going from tracking a 981 gt4. Like others have said, the 3 is great out of the box so all you need are coolant lines fixed, rear toe links, and safety goods. CLs are fine for the track.
Not often to see these cars out on track anymore, thus making them extra special
Seems like one thing is pretty clear - We’ve all forever ruined the appeal of most other cars by having 997 GT3s . . .
@nle Stunning color. What blue is that? Lines are pinned on my car, and CL would be fine mechanically speaking, but if I tracked it as seriously as I do my 4, CLs would get tedious. I run R7s, so tire consumption is higher than if I were on aggressive summer compounds. Nonetheless, that’s not a major impediment, and I would likely start out on street tires. Honestly, if mine had buckets, I’d probably already be splitting track time between it and the 4.
Haven’t convinced myself of a path yet, but I’m obviously in a fortunate position either way, and not at all dissatisfied with the current lot. I posted here instead of in the 4 sub-forum, as I didn’t want a debate on the merits of the 3 v. 4 (not really comparable in my view), but rather input on what provides a unique and complementary ownership experience to the near perfection the 997 GT3 affords.
One thing I will say is that as different as the 3 and 4 are, it almost feels a bit redundant to have 2 GT cars. I suspect that if I took the leap and started tracking the 3, that feeling would be further reinforced.
Seems like one thing is pretty clear - We’ve all forever ruined the appeal of most other cars by having 997 GT3s . . .
@nle Stunning color. What blue is that? Lines are pinned on my car, and CL would be fine mechanically speaking, but if I tracked it as seriously as I do my 4, CLs would get tedious. I run R7s, so tire consumption is higher than if I were on aggressive summer compounds. Nonetheless, that’s not a major impediment, and I would likely start out on street tires. Honestly, if mine had buckets, I’d probably already be splitting track time between it and the 4.
Haven’t convinced myself of a path yet, but I’m obviously in a fortunate position either way, and not at all dissatisfied with the current lot. I posted here instead of in the 4 sub-forum, as I didn’t want a debate on the merits of the 3 v. 4 (not really comparable in my view), but rather input on what provides a unique and complementary ownership experience to the near perfection the 997 GT3 affords.
One thing I will say is that as different as the 3 and 4 are, it almost feels a bit redundant to have 2 GT cars. I suspect that if I took the leap and started tracking the 3, that feeling would be further reinforced.
I have one friend with a GT4 that didn’t want to have two GT cars and also didn’t want to copy me, he ended up with the 430 Scuderia manual and he really likes it.
I’ve heard from a bunch of guys on here saying they like it as much as their 997.
GT4 is interesting but for what it is a new 992 Targa has a quicker track time… too new for my taste
Having a 993 'R' since more than 10 years now, a 996 TT and a 7.1 GT3, the GT3 is the luxury version on the track.
Ready to sell the TT as it feels like a limousine; tracking both, the 993 and the GT3, the 993 is more pure driving fun.
Saying that, at least here in Dxb, there is no fun in driving any of them on the road as > 5,000 speed traps and road bumps are annoying. Idling around with 3,000 rpm is not really a thing for a GT3 ...
Having said that, tried it, the GT4 is an interesting car, but at least for me, a little boring on the track.
I realize a 993 isn't as explosive or as exact as a 981 GT or especially a 997 GT. And in fairness its equivalent is 993 rs. I think a 993 is more accessible fun on street but I tend to only like cars on street that are fun to drive at slower speeds, lower rpm's and/or FEEL like going fast even when going slow. A 997 and 981 do not do that for me. They are both a hoot on track. On track: Drive train and steering feel, I give the edge to 997. I love the mid-engine balanced nimble feel of 981. I LOVE 911's but I have to admit I tend to like the balance of mid engine more than hammer-out-of-corners rear engine feel. Outside of engine placement, 997 is easier to money shift or miss a shift on track. It's a more difficult platform to drive on track but just like any car you "get it" eventually and then it's not.
Sounds like your 981 is pretty close to a dedicated track car and that can't be replaced with a track oriented car with no safety or track biased goodies. I'd say your 997-3 is the best all-in-one option but compromised more at both unless you convert it to more track dedicated setup.
I'd vote 993 (or other ACd P) for street and keep your 981 as a track setup or do the same with your 997 (or trade for a 997 already converted to dedicated track car).
Seems like one thing is pretty clear - We’ve all forever ruined the appeal of most other cars by having 997 GT3s . . .
@nle Stunning color. What blue is that? Lines are pinned on my car, and CL would be fine mechanically speaking, but if I tracked it as seriously as I do my 4, CLs would get tedious. I run R7s, so tire consumption is higher than if I were on aggressive summer compounds. Nonetheless, that’s not a major impediment, and I would likely start out on street tires. Honestly, if mine had buckets, I’d probably already be splitting track time between it and the 4.
Haven’t convinced myself of a path yet, but I’m obviously in a fortunate position either way, and not at all dissatisfied with the current lot. I posted here instead of in the 4 sub-forum, as I didn’t want a debate on the merits of the 3 v. 4 (not really comparable in my view), but rather input on what provides a unique and complementary ownership experience to the near perfection the 997 GT3 affords.
One thing I will say is that as different as the 3 and 4 are, it almost feels a bit redundant to have 2 GT cars. I suspect that if I took the leap and started tracking the 3, that feeling would be further reinforced.
It’s PTS Maritime Blue!
Buckets and roll bar are easy — reversible too if you go with bolt-in. The coolant line is usually what stops folks from committing most of the time but you have that big ticket done. CL are much less of a hassle for track use if you have a lift or quickjacks for easy access to all four wheels at once. Then 5 lug swap once CL wheel bearings need to be replaced.
Having those two GT cars are kind of redundant because they are both modern, fast, serves a similar purpose. your assessment to get an A/C car for a street cruiser is a good idea. I will be doing the same myself.
If you haven't tracked 7-3 yet 1) you must just to experience it and 2) I think that will help you make decision. I have incredible memories and miss tracking my former 3/3rs. It's such a unique feel/experience imo. You have to check that box at least once. Once you get "used" to a car on track, they all become more about getting most out of the car and track and it somewhat fades into background whether you are in a s-bxtr or a 997-4.0 (imo). BUT you gotta check the box and let that mezger sing on a track, feel the feedback from that hydraulic steering, feel the weight transfer of rear engine (w no rws), feel the heavy clutch and notchy shifter feel "right" at track pace, etc. man they really don't come to life, open up and feel fluid until on a track. You realize how clunky they feel puttering around the street once they are in their natural habitat.
I sold my 997.1 GT3 this year after taking it to RA - it was stock other than Girodisc rotors and pagid yellow pads and a DSC controller. It is really fun but not faster than a GT4 (with me driving admittedly), I think a 997.2 is maybe a little faster. I would not sell your GT4, just take the GT3 to the track with some pads and try it out before you build it into a track car. For all the hype about the transmission in the GT3 the gearing wasn't really right at RA anyway as I was between 2nd and 3rd in the slow left hand corners. I was definitely wanting a cup ring and pinion and an LSD rebuild. Instead I purchased a 991.1 GT3 (sacrelige and heresy I realize). If you want a 993 admit that you might just want one out of nostalgia - the GT3 has all the nostalgia but it's better, why bother. The 997 GT3 is a near perfect street sports car and special for C and C much more than a 993, the kids aren't going to ooh and ahh over your air-cooled car like they will a GT3. GT4 is the sensible Porsche fan ultimate track toy - it's what I should have purchased instead of my 991 but I had to stay with a GT3 to be happy.
@Jrtaylor9 and @74goldtarga - Yep. If the weather holds up, I think I’ll take the 7.2 to Barber next month. It’ll be a relatively less intense outing with street tires, pads, and regular belts, but I agree I need to get it out there. I can already tell how amazing it will be. I never come close to stretching it on street.
Also a good point that the 7.2 will be something of a compromise on track relative to the GT4. The 4 is dedicated, and stays on slicks with extreme camber, cup suspension, stiff springs, etc. Not terribly enjoyable on the street anymore. It’s something to factor in for the 3, because I don’t want to render it unusable on street as I have with the 4. That kinda nudges towards keeping the 4 dedicated, as I don’t see myself scaling back tracking in the immediate future. If anything, I’ve been considering stepping up to the next stage BGB mods for that car.
@nle True re: Bolt-in cage being easy enough. And I use Quickjacks, so CLs are serviceable, just not ideal.
@74goldtarga The 993 desire is simply nostalgia. I admit that. I think I need to find one locally and drive it for a day.
If I had to have only one car for fun on street, halfway practical on street, reliable and track-capable: 7-3/3rs is best all around package I’ve ever owned, hands down. Street-only or track-only I pick other stuff.
Once you track the GT3, it will be game over for the GT4. The shifting, the sound track, the feelings and sensations are so much more amplified in comparison to anything that is achievable on the street. Take the car out stock as a rock and go from there. If you're use to cheater slicks, maybe get some R comps, keep the sofas in, delete the side mufflers if you want to hear the symphony. If you're set on running slicks get a separate set of street wheels. The weakness of the stock LSD will become evident on track (fun for street), scary on track (high speed braking instability/trail braking and 2nd gear acceleration out of tight radius corners). I can't ever imagine having a Guards diff in a GT will ever reduce value. Over time build the car to your liking (OEM+). If your intent is to gut and cage the car, then I'd say keep the 4 and go full race setup and ditch 3. Other than that 3 all day every day. $.02
With regards to track times, it's going to take more effort (fun) to get to where you were in the GT4.
Once you track the GT3, it will be game over for the GT4. The shifting, the sound track, the feelings and sensations are so much more amplified in comparison to anything that is achievable on the street. Take the car out stock as a rock and go from there. If you're use to cheater slicks, maybe get some R comps, keep the sofas in, delete the side mufflers if you want to hear the symphony. If you're set on running slicks get a separate set of street wheels. The weakness of the stock LSD will become evident on track (fun for street), scary on track (high speed braking instability/trail braking and 2nd gear acceleration out of tight radius corners). I can't ever imagine having a Guards diff in a GT will ever reduce value. Over time build the car to your liking (OEM+). If your intent is to gut and cage the car, then I'd say keep the 4 and go full race setup and ditch 3. Other than that 3 all day every day. $.02
With regards to track times, it's going to take more effort (fun) to get to where you were in the GT4.
From a practical standpoint it does get super tiresome paying for track insurance for a $200k< car, if I had the time or proximity to track semi-weekly I wouldn't do it in my RS. But since its mostly special occasions its perfect for me.
Once you track the GT3, it will be game over for the GT4. The shifting, the sound track, the feelings and sensations are so much more amplified in comparison to anything that is achievable on the street. Take the car out stock as a rock and go from there. If you're use to cheater slicks, maybe get some R comps, keep the sofas in, delete the side mufflers if you want to hear the symphony. If you're set on running slicks get a separate set of street wheels. The weakness of the stock LSD will become evident on track (fun for street), scary on track (high speed braking instability/trail braking and 2nd gear acceleration out of tight radius corners). I can't ever imagine having a Guards diff in a GT will ever reduce value. Over time build the car to your liking (OEM+). If your intent is to gut and cage the car, then I'd say keep the 4 and go full race setup and ditch 3. Other than that 3 all day every day. $.02
With regards to track times, it's going to take more effort (fun) to get to where you were in the GT4.
Gah. Get out of my head! Mentally preparing to run at Barber with the 3 next weekend. My car is center and side-delete with Cargraphics 200 Cel headers, so the symphony is very much in effect. SWerks tune and Numeric shifter are the only other mods.
My PSSs are from '17, so a little shred of me thinks I should replace with Cup 2s before next weekend, but I'm sure the PSSs are still perfectly safe, even if not as sticky as new. I always start on street tires when tracking a new car, so agree with your suggestions there.
No desire to gut and cage. I did that on my 987 4.2 build, and it was rad, but done with those days. Hate to leave the 4 behind with all I've done to it, but if it happens, it happens.
@Wonderdan - I typically track for free as an instructor, so I consider the insurance outlay my "substitute" entry fee. But yeah. That's a bunch when you're tracking 1-2 x a month during the season.
I'm telling you rowing those gears on track (albeit slow as f*ck in comparison to PDK) is bliss. Tranny warms up, everything is in sync, heal & toe down shifts, great gearing, mezger screaming, its real driving
For me this is where it's at. It's where the car wants to be and how the car wants to live. I can pull the car out of the garage, drive it to the track 3-4 hours away, snap in the 6pt, track it and drive it home. All GT cars were engineered to do exactly this.
The marginal gains in performance with RS or fully gutted car is not worth it to me financially or comfort wise.
If you're thinking about replacing the PSS's I'd get some NT01 or R888R. Tire availability was very scarce earlier this year, I'm not sure if things have improved, but you'll want to get those on order.
Tough call on your end, that's for sure. Seems like the 4 is really dialed in. But if you have to keep one. 3>4. You're in the FMK situation. F*ck - GT4, Marry - GT3, Kill - 993
I'm telling you rowing those gears on track (albeit slow as f*ck in comparison to PDK) is bliss. Tranny warms up, everything is in sync, heal & toe down shifts, great gearing, mezger screaming, its real driving
For me this is where it's at. It's where the car wants to be and how the car wants to live. I can pull the car out of the garage, drive it to the track 3-4 hours away, snap in the 6pt, track it and drive it home. All GT cars were engineered to do exactly this.
The marginal gains in performance with RS or fully gutted car is not worth it to me financially or comfort wise.
If you're thinking about replacing the PSS's I'd get some NT01 or R888R. Tire availability was very scarce earlier this year, I'm not sure if things have improved, but you'll want to get those on order.
Tough call on your end, that's for sure. Seems like the 4 is really dialed in. But if you have to keep one. 3>4. You're in the FMK situation. F*ck - GT4, Marry - GT3, Kill - 993
11-25-2022, 02:02 AM
