Side muffler delete: Options to keep quiet?
12-16-2019, 10:08 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
This is one of those threads that I can read every month and still learn something new from. Having just been down for a visit at Dundon and hearing Charles speak extensively about how he fine-tunes his exhaust systems, I can assure you that you want Dundon engineered parts. Mad genius doesn't even come close to describing what he does, and that was the 'laymans' version of the magic he breathes on them. 
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Mr. Adair (12-16-2019)
12-16-2019, 11:08 PM
#17
Drifting
Thread Starter
This is one of those threads that I can read every month and still learn something new from. Having just been down for a visit at Dundon and hearing Charles speak extensively about how he fine-tunes his exhaust systems, I can assure you that you want Dundon engineered parts. Mad genius doesn't even come close to describing what he does, and that was the 'laymans' version of the magic he breathes on them.
12-17-2019, 11:38 AM
#18
Yea, I’m learning as well. There are at least 4 solid choices for valved side deletes. I’m digging into them now. Dundon sure seems to be on the cutting edge these days with solid engineering to back up their products. I think their long tube complete system is probably the ticket but I want to make use of some of the components I have.
12-17-2019, 01:01 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
BGaa20 - a "bit more" as in weight reduction? (which is Mr Adair's goal) ,.... or a bit more from a sound perspective? (cuz Mr Adair needs to keep his decibels under control)
I too find myself wanting "a bit more" sound when valves are open,... but want to keep it quiet when valves closed. cake & eat it too. ;-)
... heck this banter is really just placeholders to keep this thread alive until Mr Adair comes back with his findings!! ... or while others contemplate chiming in with their own exhaust adventures over the years. Keep the posts coming from the old {GT3} timers!!
I too find myself wanting "a bit more" sound when valves are open,... but want to keep it quiet when valves closed. cake & eat it too. ;-)
... heck this banter is really just placeholders to keep this thread alive until Mr Adair comes back with his findings!! ... or while others contemplate chiming in with their own exhaust adventures over the years. Keep the posts coming from the old {GT3} timers!!
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BGaa20 (12-17-2019)
12-17-2019, 03:58 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
bingo - you & I may be slightly behind the curve when it comes to trying out exhaust systems on these 997 GT3's. I have more experience with air-cooled turbo exhausts. I'm new to this 3 muffler system & changing things around.
So BGaa20, we both have Sharkwerks bypass & still retain stock side-mufflers. Over the past year or so, I've seen several folks post that this is clearly the simplest & easiest way to get "close" to that Cup Car sound (& yet still retain valve operations). I believe it,... but I also tend to want to try things out for myself too. The fun is in the journey. And now Mr Adair has placed the bug in my head that weight reduction could add a degree of fun factor when tossing this car around. But I also don't want to let myself get caught heading down the slippery slope of full-on weight reduction. So would I be able to stop with just side muffler delete? I hope so.
So for me, my #1 priority would be to get louder with valves open, & do so by reducing some weight & heat by removing the sides,... and yet still retain the quiet when closed.
We shall see whether I can accomplish that goal.
=S
So BGaa20, we both have Sharkwerks bypass & still retain stock side-mufflers. Over the past year or so, I've seen several folks post that this is clearly the simplest & easiest way to get "close" to that Cup Car sound (& yet still retain valve operations). I believe it,... but I also tend to want to try things out for myself too. The fun is in the journey. And now Mr Adair has placed the bug in my head that weight reduction could add a degree of fun factor when tossing this car around. But I also don't want to let myself get caught heading down the slippery slope of full-on weight reduction. So would I be able to stop with just side muffler delete? I hope so.
So for me, my #1 priority would be to get louder with valves open, & do so by reducing some weight & heat by removing the sides,... and yet still retain the quiet when closed.
We shall see whether I can accomplish that goal.
=S
12-17-2019, 10:07 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
I've been comparing the valved side deletes-they're not exactly the same. If you look at pictures side by side, some have the small/top pipe welded close to the inlet, some have the small pipe welded further away. This small difference in length probably makes a bit of a difference in sound and maybe strength(?) Or maybe it doesn't make much difference. Some have the bellows for the small pipe, some don't. Some use the steel braided type bellows-
FVD has the small pipe welded further ahead, Soul has the small pipe welded right at the beginning, and also the weld is a much larger area. Not sure if all of them offer life time warranty, and of course the valves and failing bellows would be the items to worry about.
I'm still thinking of getting valved side deletes to go with my FVD center delete. That's more or less what the AWE Switchpath system is, though their sides and center don't seem to interchange with other manufacturers' systems.
To the OP trying to keep his car quieter, the JCR or other center with partial mini muffler could be a good choice. I could eventually use my OEM center if side and center bypass end up too loud, but there's the cracking center muffler possibility, and it's quieter than center bypass with OEM sides.
I saw a video of the Soul valved sides with center bypass, and with the valves closed it seems quieter for cold starts/late at night which is what concerns me-I'll probably have to start the car with the garage door closed for the first minute or two or put a wet towel over the tips late at night
FVD has the small pipe welded further ahead, Soul has the small pipe welded right at the beginning, and also the weld is a much larger area. Not sure if all of them offer life time warranty, and of course the valves and failing bellows would be the items to worry about.
I'm still thinking of getting valved side deletes to go with my FVD center delete. That's more or less what the AWE Switchpath system is, though their sides and center don't seem to interchange with other manufacturers' systems.
To the OP trying to keep his car quieter, the JCR or other center with partial mini muffler could be a good choice. I could eventually use my OEM center if side and center bypass end up too loud, but there's the cracking center muffler possibility, and it's quieter than center bypass with OEM sides.
I saw a video of the Soul valved sides with center bypass, and with the valves closed it seems quieter for cold starts/late at night which is what concerns me-I'll probably have to start the car with the garage door closed for the first minute or two or put a wet towel over the tips late at night
12-17-2019, 10:33 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
I've been comparing the valved side deletes-they're not exactly the same. If you look at pictures side by side, some have the small/top pipe welded close to the inlet, some have the small pipe welded further away. This small difference in length probably makes a bit of a difference in sound and maybe strength(?) Or maybe it doesn't make much difference. Some have the bellows for the small pipe, some don't. Some use the steel braided type bellows-
FVD has the small pipe welded further ahead, Soul has the small pipe welded right at the beginning, and also the weld is a much larger area. Not sure if all of them offer life time warranty, and of course the valves and failing bellows would be the items to worry about.
I'm still thinking of getting valved side deletes to go with my FVD center delete. That's more or less what the AWE Switchpath system is, though their sides and center don't seem to interchange with other manufacturers' systems.
To the OP trying to keep his car quieter, the JCR or other center with partial mini muffler could be a good choice. I could eventually use my OEM center if side and center bypass end up too loud, but there's the cracking center muffler possibility, and it's quieter than center bypass with OEM sides.
I saw a video of the Soul valved sides with center bypass, and with the valves closed it seems quieter for cold starts/late at night which is what concerns me-I'll probably have to start the car with the garage door closed for the first minute or two or put a wet towel over the tips late at night
FVD has the small pipe welded further ahead, Soul has the small pipe welded right at the beginning, and also the weld is a much larger area. Not sure if all of them offer life time warranty, and of course the valves and failing bellows would be the items to worry about.
I'm still thinking of getting valved side deletes to go with my FVD center delete. That's more or less what the AWE Switchpath system is, though their sides and center don't seem to interchange with other manufacturers' systems.
To the OP trying to keep his car quieter, the JCR or other center with partial mini muffler could be a good choice. I could eventually use my OEM center if side and center bypass end up too loud, but there's the cracking center muffler possibility, and it's quieter than center bypass with OEM sides.
I saw a video of the Soul valved sides with center bypass, and with the valves closed it seems quieter for cold starts/late at night which is what concerns me-I'll probably have to start the car with the garage door closed for the first minute or two or put a wet towel over the tips late at night
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Fisher (12-19-2019)
12-17-2019, 11:12 PM
#24
Drifting
Thread Starter
I knew this would be a basket of snakes! In regard to Mr. Steve I think he is trying to channel his inner Thrush Cherry Bomb or glass pack days! Some of you want that cool Cup car bark with valves open which I totally get. I’m not necessarily trying to get quieter than my current set up, I’m trying NOT to get louder with removal of the side mufflers. At 72mph in 5/6th and it’s corresponding rpm (4,000ish) and cruising I want zero drone and the least amount of exhaust note in the cabin as possible. The 7.2RS is so devoid of insulation etc. that the NVH is bad enough, conversation strained on extended drives. I realize I can’t make the car a Cayenne! All of that said, I’m not opposed to a damn nice quality bark of an exhaust note when I WANT it like I have now (sans the 90lbs of weight) during a track day, spirited drive etc. I think I have unappreciated the ability to control valves. The experienced guys on this thread have already sussed this out. So a quick review seems to indicate I'm looking for a valved side delete (are there different types of valve actuators? Are some quieter than others based on design? durability/quality? is compatibility with a switching system like Carnewal a concern?) and the quietest rear center muffler which I assume is simply the stock steel unit. I have been to busy to make calls yet. I think it's a matter of learning the traits of each system..
Last edited by Mr. Adair; 12-18-2019 at 12:00 AM.
12-18-2019, 12:05 AM
#25
Drifting
Thread Starter
I've been comparing the valved side deletes-they're not exactly the same. If you look at pictures side by side, some have the small/top pipe welded close to the inlet, some have the small pipe welded further away. This small difference in length probably makes a bit of a difference in sound and maybe strength(?) Or maybe it doesn't make much difference. Some have the bellows for the small pipe, some don't. Some use the steel braided type bellows-
FVD has the small pipe welded further ahead, Soul has the small pipe welded right at the beginning, and also the weld is a much larger area. Not sure if all of them offer life time warranty, and of course the valves and failing bellows would be the items to worry about.
I'm still thinking of getting valved side deletes to go with my FVD center delete. That's more or less what the AWE Switchpath system is, though their sides and center don't seem to interchange with other manufacturers' systems.
To the OP trying to keep his car quieter, the JCR or other center with partial mini muffler could be a good choice. I could eventually use my OEM center if side and center bypass end up too loud, but there's the cracking center muffler possibility, and it's quieter than center bypass with OEM sides.
I saw a video of the Soul valved sides with center bypass, and with the valves closed it seems quieter for cold starts/late at night which is what concerns me-I'll probably have to start the car with the garage door closed for the first minute or two or put a wet towel over the tips late at night
FVD has the small pipe welded further ahead, Soul has the small pipe welded right at the beginning, and also the weld is a much larger area. Not sure if all of them offer life time warranty, and of course the valves and failing bellows would be the items to worry about.
I'm still thinking of getting valved side deletes to go with my FVD center delete. That's more or less what the AWE Switchpath system is, though their sides and center don't seem to interchange with other manufacturers' systems.
To the OP trying to keep his car quieter, the JCR or other center with partial mini muffler could be a good choice. I could eventually use my OEM center if side and center bypass end up too loud, but there's the cracking center muffler possibility, and it's quieter than center bypass with OEM sides.
I saw a video of the Soul valved sides with center bypass, and with the valves closed it seems quieter for cold starts/late at night which is what concerns me-I'll probably have to start the car with the garage door closed for the first minute or two or put a wet towel over the tips late at night
12-18-2019, 02:46 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
Are you thinking of sourcing a stock GT3 center steel muffler to try with the side deletes with valves? Do you have the stock RS center muffler still for your red RS? I have a stock RS center muffler if you wanted to borrow it to try out with the valves side deletes for testing purposes.
Bill
Bill
12-18-2019, 08:42 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
What video was this? Was it a 991 or 997? I'm not aware of any 997 vids with the Soul CMB/SMB. Suprasaiyan has the Soul CMB and SMB combo and told me the valves don't do much to muffle the sound. I opted to save the $$ and get the non-valved SMB and pair it with my Sharkwerks CMB. From what I was told, this should be pretty loud, so not something Mr. Adair is likely looking for.
12-18-2019, 09:13 AM
#28
Drifting
Thread Starter
Are you thinking of sourcing a stock GT3 center steel muffler to try with the side deletes with valves? Do you have the stock RS center muffler still for your red RS? I have a stock RS center muffler if you wanted to borrow it to try out with the valves side deletes for testing purposes.
Bill
Bill
12-18-2019, 06:52 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
MA, I have a stock steel center you could borrow too,... but I would suspect that for testing purposes you would not build up enough heat (like a track day) to crack a Ti one just during testing. couple quick laps around the community & a short jaunt on the highway would give you the sound test you need.
I suspect the longer pole in the tent here, is having to stick a stake in the ground & make a decision to choose/buy one of the many side delete (w/ or w/o valves) - .... it would be much better if you could test them all out, and then choose.
I'm kinda doubting that there is a test & return policy if you didn't care for the sound. Maybe someone has data from various companies on a try & buy/return?
I suspect the longer pole in the tent here, is having to stick a stake in the ground & make a decision to choose/buy one of the many side delete (w/ or w/o valves) - .... it would be much better if you could test them all out, and then choose.
I'm kinda doubting that there is a test & return policy if you didn't care for the sound. Maybe someone has data from various companies on a try & buy/return?