Lets hear it: 997.2 GT3 vs 991 GTS: which and why?
07-09-2018, 07:30 PM
#1
Lets hear it: 997.2 GT3 vs 991 GTS: which and why?
I am looking to get back into the 911 game, and although I originally was targeting a GT4 (yes, I know, not a 911), I have widened my net a bit. I need pros and cons of both models.
Surprisingly, I see the 997.2 GT3 coming down into sub 100k territory. My priorities are a manual high performing car, with reasonable DD efficiency. Please when I say "reasonable", note that my other vehicle is a 2001 manual Toyota Tacoma access cab fitted with Bilsteins that are sprung for the much heavier Tundra. I want something reliable, under $100k, and that will be solid and not cost a ton to own. Insurance is under $100 on either car. . I place a big priority on presence: I prefer an aerokit 991 GTS, and of course that isn't an issue on a GT3. I will be using it as a sporty occasional DD, but also as a DE car/show car/fun car with my wife, who is also an enthusiast and demands that whatever we get has 3 pedals.
For comparison in terms of comfort, I had the non-adjustable Bilstein B8 w/H&R springs on my 997 C4S and it was about as firm as I would want on a daily basis. Sport suspension on a 991 is much more docile. Shifter-wise, I much prefer the standard 997 carrera 6-speed to any of the 7-speed 991 manuals I have driven. However, the GT3 is made by Getrag if I am not mistaken, so I don't know how it will feel in comparison.
I have driven the GTS, and really loved it! I have not driven, and will not likely have the chance to drive, a 997.2 GT3 before purchase. There are none in my area that I am aware of, and any purchase is going to be long-distance. Yet, with the fact that I love the 997.2 platform, am looking for an aggressive, sporty car, and love the rarity and presence of the GT3, is there any big flaw or reason I won't like it? I understand that the GTS is probably marginally faster at the track, but so is a 991.2 in any trim. I love the idea of a high-revving, NA engine.
Thoughts? Are there any "key" items that one should look for in a .2 GT3? I don't mind sofas, for example.
I know that the GT3 is always noted as the most pure expression of a 911 sportscar, for the enthusiast. For my wife and I (who insists on adding coilovers and sway bars to any performance car she buys), that descriptions sounds perfect!
Surprisingly, I see the 997.2 GT3 coming down into sub 100k territory. My priorities are a manual high performing car, with reasonable DD efficiency. Please when I say "reasonable", note that my other vehicle is a 2001 manual Toyota Tacoma access cab fitted with Bilsteins that are sprung for the much heavier Tundra. I want something reliable, under $100k, and that will be solid and not cost a ton to own. Insurance is under $100 on either car. . I place a big priority on presence: I prefer an aerokit 991 GTS, and of course that isn't an issue on a GT3. I will be using it as a sporty occasional DD, but also as a DE car/show car/fun car with my wife, who is also an enthusiast and demands that whatever we get has 3 pedals.
For comparison in terms of comfort, I had the non-adjustable Bilstein B8 w/H&R springs on my 997 C4S and it was about as firm as I would want on a daily basis. Sport suspension on a 991 is much more docile. Shifter-wise, I much prefer the standard 997 carrera 6-speed to any of the 7-speed 991 manuals I have driven. However, the GT3 is made by Getrag if I am not mistaken, so I don't know how it will feel in comparison.
I have driven the GTS, and really loved it! I have not driven, and will not likely have the chance to drive, a 997.2 GT3 before purchase. There are none in my area that I am aware of, and any purchase is going to be long-distance. Yet, with the fact that I love the 997.2 platform, am looking for an aggressive, sporty car, and love the rarity and presence of the GT3, is there any big flaw or reason I won't like it? I understand that the GTS is probably marginally faster at the track, but so is a 991.2 in any trim. I love the idea of a high-revving, NA engine.
Thoughts? Are there any "key" items that one should look for in a .2 GT3? I don't mind sofas, for example.
I know that the GT3 is always noted as the most pure expression of a 911 sportscar, for the enthusiast. For my wife and I (who insists on adding coilovers and sway bars to any performance car she buys), that descriptions sounds perfect!
07-09-2018, 08:19 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Well, this forum is probably not the place to obtain an unbiased reply, but here goes....
I've never driven a 991 GTS but I am sure it is a great Porsche for it's intended purpose. I have driven a friend's 991 GT3 and it is a wonderful machine. Faster but noticeably "softer" and less involving than my 997.1 GT3 partially due to the PDK but it is also larger and to me it felt more "GT" than "sports car".
There have been 22 Porsches in my garage since 1972. I grew up with the raw, quick and relatively uncomplicated ones, the vast majority of which did not even have air conditioning. I will be 70 on my next birthday and I still enjoy a Porsche that is raw, involving and unforgiving - which any 997 GT3 version is, as compared to the newer ones.
Will you be tracking? I did that years ago, eventually ending up with a dedicated race car because I decided that I did not want to beat up my Porsche on a race track. But a GT3 of any ilk is made for and thrives on tracking. Most of the guys on this forum are track focused and can tell you everything about that. What I hear from them is that the 991 GT3's generally turn quicker lap times but the 997 GT3's are more involving, more "fun". The 991 GT3 forum guys will likely disagree. Fortunately since my tracking days are behind me, I am fortunate to live in an area with plenty of curvy roads with elevation changes close by and I have a blast driving my GT3, um..."spiritedly" on them.
The bottom line is that the 997.2 GT3 and 991 GTS are pretty much apples and oranges 911-wise. You really need to drive both to determine which one meets your parameters. However, since the 997 GT3 is what it is, I believe that the resale values on them will remain strong and will likely become stronger as time passes. And also because the MSRP's continue to skyrocket on the new ones. And then there are the two M's" - Mezger and Manual. Yes, the 991.2 GT3 can be had with a manual but try to find a new one without a significant dealer markup.
Hope this helps!
I've never driven a 991 GTS but I am sure it is a great Porsche for it's intended purpose. I have driven a friend's 991 GT3 and it is a wonderful machine. Faster but noticeably "softer" and less involving than my 997.1 GT3 partially due to the PDK but it is also larger and to me it felt more "GT" than "sports car".
There have been 22 Porsches in my garage since 1972. I grew up with the raw, quick and relatively uncomplicated ones, the vast majority of which did not even have air conditioning. I will be 70 on my next birthday and I still enjoy a Porsche that is raw, involving and unforgiving - which any 997 GT3 version is, as compared to the newer ones.
Will you be tracking? I did that years ago, eventually ending up with a dedicated race car because I decided that I did not want to beat up my Porsche on a race track. But a GT3 of any ilk is made for and thrives on tracking. Most of the guys on this forum are track focused and can tell you everything about that. What I hear from them is that the 991 GT3's generally turn quicker lap times but the 997 GT3's are more involving, more "fun". The 991 GT3 forum guys will likely disagree. Fortunately since my tracking days are behind me, I am fortunate to live in an area with plenty of curvy roads with elevation changes close by and I have a blast driving my GT3, um..."spiritedly" on them.
The bottom line is that the 997.2 GT3 and 991 GTS are pretty much apples and oranges 911-wise. You really need to drive both to determine which one meets your parameters. However, since the 997 GT3 is what it is, I believe that the resale values on them will remain strong and will likely become stronger as time passes. And also because the MSRP's continue to skyrocket on the new ones. And then there are the two M's" - Mezger and Manual. Yes, the 991.2 GT3 can be had with a manual but try to find a new one without a significant dealer markup.
Hope this helps!
Last edited by jackb911; 07-09-2018 at 09:55 PM.
07-09-2018, 09:07 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
are you saying you are actually seeing 997.2 GT3s at sub-100k price or that you could see them going to that price?
i think even the "high mileage" ones are still asking more than that price. i definitely wouldn't sell my "high mileage" GT3 for less than $100k.
as to your question, i'll 2nd what Jack said. apples and oranges comparison as far as feel, sound, personality, etc go.
i wouldn't be surprised if they are quite similar with regards to performance metrics (0-60, braking, etc).
my old boss had a 991 GTS with manual. it was nice to ride in. softer feeling. snazzier interior and electronics.
but i'll take my sofa seated 997.2 GT3 over it any day. even one filled with commute traffic.
i think even the "high mileage" ones are still asking more than that price. i definitely wouldn't sell my "high mileage" GT3 for less than $100k.
as to your question, i'll 2nd what Jack said. apples and oranges comparison as far as feel, sound, personality, etc go.
i wouldn't be surprised if they are quite similar with regards to performance metrics (0-60, braking, etc).
my old boss had a 991 GTS with manual. it was nice to ride in. softer feeling. snazzier interior and electronics.
but i'll take my sofa seated 997.2 GT3 over it any day. even one filled with commute traffic.
07-09-2018, 09:13 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
to quote mooty:
997 GT3 give the tingly feeling
regular 997. Do not.
they are such different cars. similar in body shape only.
997 GT3 give the tingly feeling
regular 997. Do not.
they are such different cars. similar in body shape only.
07-09-2018, 10:25 PM
#6
Drifting
Well, this forum is probably not the place to obtain an unbiased reply, but here goes....
I've never driven a 991 GTS but I am sure it is a great Porsche for it's intended purpose. I have driven a friend's 991 GT3 and it is a wonderful machine. Faster but noticeably "softer" and less involving than my 997.1 GT3 partially due to the PDK but it is also larger and to me it felt more "GT" than "sports car".
There have been 22 Porsches in my garage since 1972. I grew up with the raw, quick and relatively uncomplicated ones, the vast majority of which did not even have air conditioning. I will be 70 on my next birthday and I still enjoy a Porsche that is raw, involving and unforgiving - which any 997 GT3 version is, as compared to the newer ones.
Will you be tracking? I did that years ago, eventually ending up with a dedicated race car because I decided that I did not want to beat up my Porsche on a race track. But a GT3 of any ilk is made for and thrives on tracking. Most of the guys on this forum are track focused and can tell you everything about that. What I hear from them is that the 991 GT3's generally turn quicker lap times but the 997 GT3's are more involving, more "fun". The 991 GT3 forum guys will likely disagree. Fortunately since my tracking days are behind me, I am fortunate to live in an area with plenty of curvy roads with elevation changes close by and I have a blast driving my GT3, um..."spiritedly" on them.
The bottom line is that the 997.2 GT3 and 991 GTS are pretty much apples and oranges 911-wise. You really need to drive both to determine which one meets your parameters. However, since the 997 GT3 is what it is, I believe that the resale values on them will remain strong and will likely become stronger as time passes. And also because the MSRP's continue to skyrocket on the new ones. And then there are the two M's" - Mezger and Manual. Yes, the 991.2 GT3 can be had with a manual but try to find a new one without a significant dealer markup.
Hope this helps!
I've never driven a 991 GTS but I am sure it is a great Porsche for it's intended purpose. I have driven a friend's 991 GT3 and it is a wonderful machine. Faster but noticeably "softer" and less involving than my 997.1 GT3 partially due to the PDK but it is also larger and to me it felt more "GT" than "sports car".
There have been 22 Porsches in my garage since 1972. I grew up with the raw, quick and relatively uncomplicated ones, the vast majority of which did not even have air conditioning. I will be 70 on my next birthday and I still enjoy a Porsche that is raw, involving and unforgiving - which any 997 GT3 version is, as compared to the newer ones.
Will you be tracking? I did that years ago, eventually ending up with a dedicated race car because I decided that I did not want to beat up my Porsche on a race track. But a GT3 of any ilk is made for and thrives on tracking. Most of the guys on this forum are track focused and can tell you everything about that. What I hear from them is that the 991 GT3's generally turn quicker lap times but the 997 GT3's are more involving, more "fun". The 991 GT3 forum guys will likely disagree. Fortunately since my tracking days are behind me, I am fortunate to live in an area with plenty of curvy roads with elevation changes close by and I have a blast driving my GT3, um..."spiritedly" on them.
The bottom line is that the 997.2 GT3 and 991 GTS are pretty much apples and oranges 911-wise. You really need to drive both to determine which one meets your parameters. However, since the 997 GT3 is what it is, I believe that the resale values on them will remain strong and will likely become stronger as time passes. And also because the MSRP's continue to skyrocket on the new ones. And then there are the two M's" - Mezger and Manual. Yes, the 991.2 GT3 can be had with a manual but try to find a new one without a significant dealer markup.
Hope this helps!
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07-10-2018, 02:44 AM
#8
I echo what others have said - drive both cars and I think you'll be able to make your decision easily. I had a 2015 manual 991.1 GTS that I loved but 4 months after buying it I drove a 997.1 GT-3 and the next day started my hunt for a GT-3. I fortunately found one quickly and couldn't be happier - do not miss the GTS. Good luck!
07-10-2018, 03:03 AM
#9
Pro
If you like “high revving NA motor”, you may wish to consider 997.1 GT3 as the 3.6 spools up quickly. I have 997.2 GT3 RS and the lightweight flywheel makes it a very revvy car - intoxicating! I find suspension taut but not jarring (but lower than a snake’s armpits).
I drove a friend’s 997.1 GT3 (non RS) & the smaller motor was surprisingly similarly quick to rev - even on downshift where there is little decel, but rather the revs just shoot up like with a sport bike.
I have not driven 997.2 GT3 but understand it is not as rev happy w 3.8 and heavier flywheel, so then you’re poss heading down the mod road aka cliff.
You sound more like GT3 dude/dude-ette to me unless you need to haul kids in back.
Cheers
Mark
I drove a friend’s 997.1 GT3 (non RS) & the smaller motor was surprisingly similarly quick to rev - even on downshift where there is little decel, but rather the revs just shoot up like with a sport bike.
I have not driven 997.2 GT3 but understand it is not as rev happy w 3.8 and heavier flywheel, so then you’re poss heading down the mod road aka cliff.
You sound more like GT3 dude/dude-ette to me unless you need to haul kids in back.
Cheers
Mark
07-10-2018, 04:41 AM
#10
I drive a 7.2 GT3, having owned 4S and driven 991 Carrera T and S. Noting feels like a 7.2 GT3. It is a significantly more involving experience to drive a true GT3 car.
The gear change, steering feel and chassis feedback, when driven hard, is the best and most intoxicating of ANY car.
For me discussing outright speed, even for a car as fast as a 7.2GT3, does not make sense. There is no price, not even at a track day, the only award is the feeling the car gives you.
The gear change, steering feel and chassis feedback, when driven hard, is the best and most intoxicating of ANY car.
For me discussing outright speed, even for a car as fast as a 7.2GT3, does not make sense. There is no price, not even at a track day, the only award is the feeling the car gives you.
07-10-2018, 09:00 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
What you described about the 991 is all true, the GTS is a better car, but not a better Porsche to the 997.2 GT3. 997 GT3 is a high watermark in Porsche's history, the 991 GTS is 2nd tier.
07-10-2018, 10:08 AM
#13
Drifting
I drive a 7.2 GT3, having owned 4S and driven 991 Carrera T and S. Noting feels like a 7.2 GT3. It is a significantly more involving experience to drive a true GT3 car.
The gear change, steering feel and chassis feedback, when driven hard, is the best and most intoxicating of ANY car.
For me discussing outright speed, even for a car as fast as a 7.2GT3, does not make sense. There is no price, not even at a track day, the only award is the feeling the car gives you.
The gear change, steering feel and chassis feedback, when driven hard, is the best and most intoxicating of ANY car.
For me discussing outright speed, even for a car as fast as a 7.2GT3, does not make sense. There is no price, not even at a track day, the only award is the feeling the car gives you.
07-10-2018, 12:25 PM
#15
^ In general, regardless of trim, I find the 991s to be beyond what I like in terms of size. To me a small footprint is a must for a sports car. I saw a 991 parked next to an SUV... it's a bit of a daunting moment when you realize its actual footprint.