Help APEX Create a Better Porsche Track Wheel
#17
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APEX Wheels - expert@apexwheels.com
Website - Blog - Instagram - Porsche Fitment Guides
APEX Wheels - expert@apexwheels.com
Website - Blog - Instagram - Porsche Fitment Guides
#18
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Slow news day here, but have a question for the community.
If given the option, would you be willing to add .25lbs to the weight of each wheel for center cap accommodation? The center cone would need to be enlarged to accept an APEX or Porsche cap, thus, minimally increasing weight. Both options will still be hub-centric, so it is purely aesthetic preference.
Option 1: No center cap, .25lbs lighter
Option 2: Ability to run center cap, but .25 lbs heavier
You can mull over the pictures below and please let me know your thoughts.
If given the option, would you be willing to add .25lbs to the weight of each wheel for center cap accommodation? The center cone would need to be enlarged to accept an APEX or Porsche cap, thus, minimally increasing weight. Both options will still be hub-centric, so it is purely aesthetic preference.
Option 1: No center cap, .25lbs lighter
Option 2: Ability to run center cap, but .25 lbs heavier
You can mull over the pictures below and please let me know your thoughts.
#20
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I'll try to create and post some Porsche center-cap and/or more no center-cap renderings soon.
Cheers!
Last edited by Apex Wheels; 10-30-2017 at 03:10 PM.
#21
Drifting
Slow news day here, but have a question for the community.
If given the option, would you be willing to add .25lbs to the weight of each wheel for center cap accommodation? The center cone would need to be enlarged to accept an APEX or Porsche cap, thus, minimally increasing weight. Both options will still be hub-centric, so it is purely aesthetic preference.
Option 1: No center cap, .25lbs lighter
Option 2: Ability to run center cap, but .25 lbs heavier
You can mull over the pictures below and please let me know your thoughts.
If given the option, would you be willing to add .25lbs to the weight of each wheel for center cap accommodation? The center cone would need to be enlarged to accept an APEX or Porsche cap, thus, minimally increasing weight. Both options will still be hub-centric, so it is purely aesthetic preference.
Option 1: No center cap, .25lbs lighter
Option 2: Ability to run center cap, but .25 lbs heavier
You can mull over the pictures below and please let me know your thoughts.
#22
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What I've gathered is that companies who are much more expensive will make lighter wheels -- but we serve a different purpose. APEX are strong, lightweight, budget friendly, track-engineered wheels that can likely stand to live with an additional .25lbs. Those who seek to save every ounce and bypass a center-cap will likely opt for the $6k/set light(er)weight wheels, anyway. Though no decision has been set in stone thus far, so the discussion re: center-cap accommodation is still up for debate.
#23
Drifting
Very fair catch and certainly something we take into consideration. Although I'm getting very conflicting preferences across the boards, this helps tremendously. If our BMW wheels center-cap accommodation is any indication of Porsche, many enthusiasts scream for the ability to run an OEM cap.
What I've gathered is that companies who are much more expensive will make lighter wheels -- but we serve a different purpose. APEX are strong, lightweight, budget friendly, track-engineered wheels that can likely stand to live with an additional .25lbs. Those who seek to save every ounce and bypass a center-cap will likely opt for the $6k/set light(er)weight wheels, anyway. Though no decision has been set in stone thus far, so the discussion re: center-cap accommodation is still up for debate.
What I've gathered is that companies who are much more expensive will make lighter wheels -- but we serve a different purpose. APEX are strong, lightweight, budget friendly, track-engineered wheels that can likely stand to live with an additional .25lbs. Those who seek to save every ounce and bypass a center-cap will likely opt for the $6k/set light(er)weight wheels, anyway. Though no decision has been set in stone thus far, so the discussion re: center-cap accommodation is still up for debate.
#24
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APEX has thrived for those in the market for a well-rounded (literally) track wheel option encompassing the characteristics above; strength, affordability, and lightweight, with a track replacement program. If you're the original owner of the set and your APEX's endure any cosmetic or structural damage (from track or otherwise) you can purchase the same wheel at a 50% discount.
#25
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Where are Apex wheels made and what is the process? If forged where are the forgings from? That alone is more important than a center cap...
I'm local so if you make them in house I would like to come and check them out.
I'm local so if you make them in house I would like to come and check them out.
#26
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Our wheels are one-piece, aluminum with Flow-Formed (rotary forged) barrels. The flow-forming improves the strength of the barrel so the yields are more like a fully forged wheel.
They are made in China, which we discussed below in another thread.
We’ve been in business for 10 years, and we’ve stuck with one supplier in China. We chose them because they already had the equipment to Flow-Form which was rare back then, and their primary customers were big OEMs and other Japanese wheel manufacturers. What’s kept our relationship strong has been their willingness to further increase their QA standards at our request, and to support our extensive crush testing despite our low production volumes.
I can’t speak with any certainty on where another wheel is manufactured, but if they have a history of being soft and low quality, then it’s almost certainly not from our supplier as we’re definitely paying a premium to get the quality we require. As flow-forming became popular, a lot of other manufacturers have popped up offering similar services. If a vendor doesn’t come to a supplier with any of their own standards, and they’re just looking for a wheel, then there are a lot of suppliers out there now that are happy to cater to vendors just looking for another thing to sell.
For anything manufactured overseas, real world testing and independent checks are required to ensure you get quality out of a supplier. Done right, you get an iphone. Done wrong, you get exploding hoverboards. This is where the biggest differences start to reveal themselves in the wheel industry. It’s clear that most brands don’t even understand how to keep their suppliers in check as they’ll claim JWL and VIA on product that clearly haven’t been tested. We can tell they’re misrepresenting their products because there is a database that contains all the supplier names, wheel models, and test related data for every wheels that’s ever been certified by the VIA. Most wheels aren’t on that list as they’ve never been tested. Some vendors are novices that and assume they’re tested or they work with suppliers that tell them they’re tested, while others purposefully skip it to save costs. Both make you really worry about what other corners are being cut or missed.
After multiple computer revisions and FEA, we run real world impact, load, and crush tests for every unique wheel spec. Even if the offset change is only 1mm different on a new size, we still do the tests. Since all of this testing is done in-house, we need to keep our supplier in check. When they’re done we send wheels to the VIA in Japan which is a government testing organization. They real world crush test our wheels again and provide 3rd party validation that corners aren’t being cut.
This thorough testing gives us the confidence that we’re producing quality product that’s worthy of being driven at the limits on track. The last 10 years of customers beating on our wheels is proof that we’ve accomplished just that.
I can’t speak with any certainty on where another wheel is manufactured, but if they have a history of being soft and low quality, then it’s almost certainly not from our supplier as we’re definitely paying a premium to get the quality we require. As flow-forming became popular, a lot of other manufacturers have popped up offering similar services. If a vendor doesn’t come to a supplier with any of their own standards, and they’re just looking for a wheel, then there are a lot of suppliers out there now that are happy to cater to vendors just looking for another thing to sell.
For anything manufactured overseas, real world testing and independent checks are required to ensure you get quality out of a supplier. Done right, you get an iphone. Done wrong, you get exploding hoverboards. This is where the biggest differences start to reveal themselves in the wheel industry. It’s clear that most brands don’t even understand how to keep their suppliers in check as they’ll claim JWL and VIA on product that clearly haven’t been tested. We can tell they’re misrepresenting their products because there is a database that contains all the supplier names, wheel models, and test related data for every wheels that’s ever been certified by the VIA. Most wheels aren’t on that list as they’ve never been tested. Some vendors are novices that and assume they’re tested or they work with suppliers that tell them they’re tested, while others purposefully skip it to save costs. Both make you really worry about what other corners are being cut or missed.
After multiple computer revisions and FEA, we run real world impact, load, and crush tests for every unique wheel spec. Even if the offset change is only 1mm different on a new size, we still do the tests. Since all of this testing is done in-house, we need to keep our supplier in check. When they’re done we send wheels to the VIA in Japan which is a government testing organization. They real world crush test our wheels again and provide 3rd party validation that corners aren’t being cut.
This thorough testing gives us the confidence that we’re producing quality product that’s worthy of being driven at the limits on track. The last 10 years of customers beating on our wheels is proof that we’ve accomplished just that.
We understand where you’re coming from. It’s all talk until there is some proof to back up our claims. We’re sickened by the number of companies claiming they’re VIA/JWL certified when in fact they are not, so we always welcome a discussion on the matter. We encourage enthusiasts to do their due-diligence before making an educated wheel purchase as we’re all aware of the failures that can happen.
Posting a video doesn’t prove anything as we’ve seen them already from other manufacturers that lie about their certification(s). Each factory has the equipment in-house to conduct tests, but it doesn’t mean everything is tested or tested to the same standards as what the VIA requires. To us, in-house testing is just like taking a practice SAT test. The only score a college will care about is the officially sanctioned test you took, not the one you did at home on your own. These in-house tests and videos are conducted without regulation, subject to false load quantities, and used solely for marketing purposes. This is where the catastrophic on-track failures occur and the biggest differences start to reveal themselves in the wheel industry.
The VIA in Japan runs the JWL test and there is only one way to conduct that test so a manufacturer can’t game the system. SAE J2530 testing conducted in the USA by some manufacturers can be manipulated. We got into a spat with a competitor many years ago that claimed JWL/VIA/TUV certification. They only did SAE testing and that test allows them to pick any load rating to certify. That brand only tested to 1200lbs when VIA requires 690KG (1521lbs) for the 5x120 bolt pattern. A trend we see lately is brands that use tricky terminology such as “exceeds JWL/VIA”. Translated, that means they have no third party official evidence of anything, they want you to trust that they conducted a legitimate in-house test, and for some good reason they decided not to take that last step.
So how do you know we’re the real deal? There’s two ways to check. One way is online. The VIA maintains a list of every single manufacturer, wheel model, and size that has been certified. Unfortunately, they require a login to view that list which we find odd as we believe that should be a public database. The other way is by looking at the certified test reports that are mailed to them by the VIA.
Although we don’t have a video of the test being run, we noticed the older reports did include a photograph of our wheel in an impact test machine which we’ve attached below. The new reports just include a photo of the wheel on the ground which is not as interesting.
The only things we’ve hidden in these images is our source’s name.
Posting a video doesn’t prove anything as we’ve seen them already from other manufacturers that lie about their certification(s). Each factory has the equipment in-house to conduct tests, but it doesn’t mean everything is tested or tested to the same standards as what the VIA requires. To us, in-house testing is just like taking a practice SAT test. The only score a college will care about is the officially sanctioned test you took, not the one you did at home on your own. These in-house tests and videos are conducted without regulation, subject to false load quantities, and used solely for marketing purposes. This is where the catastrophic on-track failures occur and the biggest differences start to reveal themselves in the wheel industry.
The VIA in Japan runs the JWL test and there is only one way to conduct that test so a manufacturer can’t game the system. SAE J2530 testing conducted in the USA by some manufacturers can be manipulated. We got into a spat with a competitor many years ago that claimed JWL/VIA/TUV certification. They only did SAE testing and that test allows them to pick any load rating to certify. That brand only tested to 1200lbs when VIA requires 690KG (1521lbs) for the 5x120 bolt pattern. A trend we see lately is brands that use tricky terminology such as “exceeds JWL/VIA”. Translated, that means they have no third party official evidence of anything, they want you to trust that they conducted a legitimate in-house test, and for some good reason they decided not to take that last step.
So how do you know we’re the real deal? There’s two ways to check. One way is online. The VIA maintains a list of every single manufacturer, wheel model, and size that has been certified. Unfortunately, they require a login to view that list which we find odd as we believe that should be a public database. The other way is by looking at the certified test reports that are mailed to them by the VIA.
Although we don’t have a video of the test being run, we noticed the older reports did include a photograph of our wheel in an impact test machine which we’ve attached below. The new reports just include a photo of the wheel on the ground which is not as interesting.
The only things we’ve hidden in these images is our source’s name.
It's nice to see someone so local. If you'd like to come by to see our facility and/or check out our photo-studio, you're more than welcome anytime.
#27
Drifting
On the total flip-side, I entirely understand where you're coming from and agree. Enthusiasts who seek to shed every single possible ounce are the ones who I believe will be purchasing those expensive light(er)weight wheel options.
APEX has thrived for those in the market for a well-rounded (literally) track wheel option encompassing the characteristics above; strength, affordability, and lightweight, with a track replacement program. If you're the original owner of the set and your APEX's endure any cosmetic or structural damage (from track or otherwise) you can purchase the same wheel at a 50% discount.
APEX has thrived for those in the market for a well-rounded (literally) track wheel option encompassing the characteristics above; strength, affordability, and lightweight, with a track replacement program. If you're the original owner of the set and your APEX's endure any cosmetic or structural damage (from track or otherwise) you can purchase the same wheel at a 50% discount.
forgot to ask, what size are you offering the wheels in. i don't recall seeing anything
#28
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What fitments would you personally like to see produced?
#29
Drifting
Our sizing hasn't been finalized yet as we're figuring out exactly what to offer in our initial group buy and first few production runs. You can confidently count on 18 & 19" diameters with 8.5-9" front and 10-12" rear options. Should encompass most all water-cooled chassis with emphasis on NB/WB 996/997/991, 986, 987, 981, and 964, 993, 944/951/968 fitments in the mix too. Extreme niche fitments (ei: 9.5" front and 12.5" or 13" rear) will likely will be produced in future production runs, but it'll be a while.
What fitments would you personally like to see produced?
What fitments would you personally like to see produced?
#30
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