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I would love to hear from another C2 driver who has the base, do they experience what Bruce does? I find the ride in my car a bit rough, but passengers have described it as smooth?
I had limited seat time in an '09 C2 base, no PASM. My memory was that the car's suspension felt better than my S with PASM. The base felt more like my Boxster S..... overall, going from memory, I liked the base suspension better than my PASM system. I really am disappointed in the way Porsche set up this PASM system.
I have not tested braking at the extreme.... I just didn't do this test. The nose does not dive... but then it never dove (much). I just have not driven the car at the extremes on the roads so I don't have data. For the driving I did do, the car stays flat in Sport mode but can float over humps (not bumps) in Normal mode.
However, as soon as you put in a serious input such as brake, quick turn in, hard accelerate or pitch the car with a lateral G Force, the thing tightens right up and remains flat.
Regarding the "Skyhook" algorithms to ensure tire-to-road contact over uneven surface, I think DSC does this better than the Porsche tune. Again, I never pushed the car to slide so I don't have the science. I will assume that having a car lurch around will result in varied weight on the road and therefore changing friction coefficient witch, simply, cannot be good for traction. Note that in reading about skyhook algorithms, it is all about passenger comfort..... and the algorithms, as far as I can tell with my little brain, require tracking vertical movement of the car. The 997.2 does not have road height sensors on the wheels.... the 991s do have these sensors and DSC supposedly uses this information as input to the action it takes. Anywho... as I noted... the car runs flatter with the DSC software (at least feels flatter) than with the native Porsche algorithms.
But regarding "seat of the pants", all I can say is the car is more comfortable, rides flatter, and feels more stable in turns and in particularly, bumpy turns. I purchased this software to fix a problem, not to do better trail braking or quicker lap time. Beyond this, I would be speculating way out my er .. um... seat of my pants.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Thanks for your observations. Just to clarify... I am not after 'skyhook' behavior. OEM PASM does not do it. 'Skyhook' is, as you say, designed for common wisdom comfort perception and kills 'seat of the pants' driver feeling.
Just an update: In short I am still very excited about this software and I really love my ride now. Not perfect, but I really love the car.
But.... with use, cracks appear..... DSC was great with help.
What happened: First let me say, don't try this at home, I was on a closed course, supervised by professionals... yadda yadda..... I was cruising between 90 and 110.... just cruising... holding speed and at 110, the car started to oscillate or rock side to side... actually more accurately, a yaw side-to-side like I was in a strong cross wind. This sounds way worse than it was... I never felt like I was out of control or in danger. But I feel it should not have happened. Coincidentally, I was starting to feel at this point of usage, that the ride was not firm enough at higher speeds.
This "closed course" has miles of straights, then gentle curves and at those speeds, can undulate a bit. In my opinion, the shocks need to be stiffer... and not so soft.
So Jordan and Tom looked over my stock settings and made recommendations for change. But they also noted I was the only customer so far to have this issue or desire.... they suggested it may be related to my 115K miles on my springs.... I replaced my shocks with Porsche-labeled ones about 20K miles ago.
So I took their advice and plugged my laptop into the module and made changes.... but I went ahead and went further... as you see in the table below. I stiffened it up all the way to the lowest MPH of 60 (I did this to Normal and Sport equally). BTW, I only drive in Sport mode unless I am on a really bad road... this issue occurred in Sport mode.
Now I feel the car is more stable at speed. Note I am not talking about track work here, but simple cruising, listening to music... littering Doritos crumbs into my carpet.
I hope this helps of give courage to anyone wanting to tweak their box. I will say that I looked at the vids etc, and honestly, was very confused... but that is OK, Tom and Jordan came through with good recs.
BTW, I made the changes on my desktop computer, saved the file to the cloud, then when I was ready, fired up my laptop, downloaded my new profile, and updated the car. Oh yea, the USB port on the module is the midsized one... not the new micro USB. I then left the cable connected, coiled the cable up and shoved it up the bung should I need it again.
Just installed the DSC Sport controller and took the car out for a spin. Wow, I really regret not making this change a long time go!
Just as Bruce and others have said, what a difference between the stock Damp Tronic controller versus the DSC Sport controller. As programmed, it completely softens the ride while maintaining the firm handling needs of a sports car.
For riding on the street (versus the track), the settings seem pretty well dialed, but I really need to put some more miles on it before deciding to play with the settings (for more agressive street use, it seems like the settings could be a little firmer when in Sports mode).
I installed the dsc controller. I installed B6 sport shocks a year ago. So I'll give my comments to both and the Combo
My car: 997.1 c4 with pasm. I have stock spacers and I'm running on Bridgestone s04. Stock springs. Car has about 65k miles. OEM alignment.
First the change from b4 to b6 This upgrade made a great improvement in canyon driving. The car was more settled. Normal mode was stiff but not too jumpy. I could go a little faster in the corners and not worry about hitting bumps
However the B6s are too stiff - at least for me on the freeway. I'm in southern california so the concrete can get pretty bad with many seams and cups.
If your only going on country roads or aggressive canyon runs B6s are perfect. But I lost the enjoyment of the gt nature of the car on the freeway
I put in the DSC controller and accelerometer about 2 weeks ago. For those of you in LA I've now driven on the 405. The 371 to Anza and the Ortega highway, even checked the setup on portegues bend.
So here it is. B6s w dsc: Freeway driving. I'm really liking it. Very smooth and relaxing. I will say for me I have a slight sense of floatiness in normal mode so if the road is in good shape I put it in sport mode
Canyon carving. Aggressive driving but not too fast. Decent improvement over just the b6s. Turn in is much more quicker and corners flat, but you will lose some of the '911 squat' feel out of the corners. Best way to describe it the car now feels more like a boxster n the corners. Perhaps halfway from a c4 to a boxster same vintage.
If I didn't need freeway driving I'm not sure I would it if I had b6s already
I installed the dsc controller. I installed B6 sport shocks a year ago. So I'll give my comments to both and the Combo
My car: 997.1 c4 with pasm. I have stock spacers and I'm running on Bridgestone s04. Stock springs. Car has about 65k miles. OEM alignment.
First the change from b4 to b6 This upgrade made a great improvement in canyon driving. The car was more settled. Normal mode was stiff but not too jumpy. I could go a little faster in the corners and not worry about hitting bumps
However the B6s are too stiff - at least for me on the freeway. I'm in southern california so the concrete can get pretty bad with many seams and cups.
If your only going on country roads or aggressive canyon runs B6s are perfect. But I lost the enjoyment of the gt nature of the car on the freeway
I put in the DSC controller and accelerometer about 2 weeks ago. For those of you in LA I've now driven on the 405. The 371 to Anza and the Ortega highway, even checked the setup on portegues bend.
So here it is. B6s w dsc: Freeway driving. I'm really liking it. Very smooth and relaxing. I will say for me I have a slight sense of floatiness in normal mode so if the road is in good shape I put it in sport mode
Canyon carving. Aggressive driving but not too fast. Decent improvement over just the b6s. Turn in is much more quicker and corners flat, but you will lose some of the '911 squat' feel out of the corners. Best way to describe it the car now feels more like a boxster n the corners. Perhaps halfway from a c4 to a boxster same vintage.
If I didn't need freeway driving I'm not sure I would it if I had b6s already
So a great product. Very happy I did it. Thx TPC.
Tim.
Thanks for the review. I'm seriously considering this now as NYC/NJ pavement is...not the best. (Yet we pay so much in taxes...weird how that works). Would appreciate some additional 'give' in Normal mode. Though, TBH, I'm not sure I notice much difference between modes as it is...
Thanks for the review. I'm seriously considering this now as NYC/NJ pavement is...not the best. (Yet we pay so much in taxes...weird how that works). Would appreciate some additional 'give' in Normal mode. Though, TBH, I'm not sure I notice much difference between modes as it is...
You will DEFINITELY 100% feel the difference in compliance with the DSC controller installed. I too was sceptical about this mod wondering how much difference it will actually make that I can feel, and was pleasantly surprised.
Thanks for the review. I'm seriously considering this now as NYC/NJ pavement is...not the best. (Yet we pay so much in taxes...weird how that works). Would appreciate some additional 'give' in Normal mode. Though, TBH, I'm not sure I notice much difference between modes as it is...
If you're not noticing any difference between PASM on/off in the stock config, you might have an open circuit. Either a connector has come off one of the dampers or a wire has been pinched. My experience with stock PASM on is that ride is very jittery on streets at highway speed. In the case of an open circuit PASM reportedly defaults into the "Sport" mode. The stock PASM standard setting is noticeably different than the sport/on setting and both the rebound and compression dampening are dialed back allowing the car to glide better. Based on the inputs (single channel voltage and no external adjustment dials), I don't think the stock dampers have separate adjustable high speed/low speed circuits like I'm used to tuning on high end MTB suspension.
That said, like others I immediately noticed the difference with the DSC, though I might want to tweak its settings a bit. I took a sweeping flyover ramp on the highway and it felt like the car wallowed on the stock soft setting. I feel it might be a little too soft though it was noticeably more comfortable everywhere else on my little test circuit. On tighter turn in, it flattened right out, and I could feel that difference. As others mentioned, PASM is now useful. I'm looking forward to a mountain drive with it very soon.
If you're not noticing any difference between PASM on/off in the stock config, you might have an open circuit. Either a connector has come off one of the dampers or a wire has been pinched. My experience with stock PASM on is that ride is very jittery on streets at highway speed. In the case of an open circuit PASM reportedly defaults into the "Sport" mode. The stock PASM standard setting is noticeably different than the sport/on setting and both the rebound and compression dampening are dialed back allowing the car to glide better. Based on the inputs (single channel voltage and no external adjustment dials), I don't think the stock dampers have separate adjustable high speed/low speed circuits like I'm used to tuning on high end MTB suspension.
That said, like others I immediately noticed the difference with the DSC, though I might want to tweak its settings a bit. I took a sweeping flyover ramp on the highway and it felt like the car wallowed on the stock soft setting. I feel it might be a little too soft though it was noticeably more comfortable everywhere else on my little test circuit. On tighter turn in, it flattened right out, and I could feel that difference. As others mentioned, PASM is now useful. I'm looking forward to a mountain drive with it very soon.
GG, not knowing what your current profile maps look like, I would suggest tweaking the settings by either:
starting stiffer so there's less lag when the system senses the g-load from turn-in. It's not the DSC controller that produces the lag, but the speed at which the shocks can react to the signals. Downside to this method is that you'll loose some of the compliance from the softer starting setting
If the profile stays full soft for some section of the g-table, lessen how long it stays that way and/or make the stiffness progression more linear from the start to the end.
If your table is already progressively linear and ends at full stiff, use a lower number at the end of the stiffness table (even one below the range capability of the shocks) then populate the table. This will make each incremental stiffness jump larger so it feels like it reacts quicker, and there's no risk in trying to run the shocks at a value stiffer than they'll go at the end of the table. Note: that's not the case if trying run them softer than they'll go as you'll overheat them.
RacerWannabe - you'll have to find the balance between stiffness that prevents the shocks from bottoming and the compliance you seek. Having the DSC should certainly allow you to improve the stock PASM ride though.
If you're not noticing any difference between PASM on/off in the stock config, you might have an open circuit. Either a connector has come off one of the dampers or a wire has been pinched. My experience with stock PASM on is that ride is very jittery on streets at highway speed. In the case of an open circuit PASM reportedly defaults into the "Sport" mode. The stock PASM standard setting is noticeably different than the sport/on setting and both the rebound and compression dampening are dialed back allowing the car to glide better. Based on the inputs (single channel voltage and no external adjustment dials), I don't think the stock dampers have separate adjustable high speed/low speed circuits like I'm used to tuning on high end MTB suspension.
That said, like others I immediately noticed the difference with the DSC, though I might want to tweak its settings a bit. I took a sweeping flyover ramp on the highway and it felt like the car wallowed on the stock soft setting. I feel it might be a little too soft though it was noticeably more comfortable everywhere else on my little test circuit. On tighter turn in, it flattened right out, and I could feel that difference. As others mentioned, PASM is now useful. I'm looking forward to a mountain drive with it very soon.
Thank you, and thank you as well, Petza. Is there a code one can scan for that would indicate this? When the car was scanned for codes with a Durametric for my ppi there weren't any...
it was Bruce’s write up that led me to the DSC controller decision. I just installed mine and love it! Thanks for all you do for this forum, Bruce in Philly/Atlanta !
05-08-2017, 04:15 PM
