Michelin Super Sport vs new 4S - my opinion
#16
RL Community Team
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I like this engineer blogger... I suspect most of you have seen one or two of his vids....
Well he must be getting popular because Michelin invited him out to check out the 4S tires. A good vid, but what really struck me is the real-time empirical evidence of braking performance deep into vid.... at 8:09, shows the actual braking performance for all the autocross participants..... the Michelins were far superior. Also, I am impressed that Michelin really chose to test against the real alternatives to their new tire: S04, Pirelli, Conti, Goodyear.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Well he must be getting popular because Michelin invited him out to check out the 4S tires. A good vid, but what really struck me is the real-time empirical evidence of braking performance deep into vid.... at 8:09, shows the actual braking performance for all the autocross participants..... the Michelins were far superior. Also, I am impressed that Michelin really chose to test against the real alternatives to their new tire: S04, Pirelli, Conti, Goodyear.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
#17
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Thanks Bruce, good info.
#18
The Continental ExtremeContact SPORT is something I am leaning more towards now based on these reviews, but when the time comes to buy I'll make a decision then. Seems like Conti SPORT are an improvement over PSS yet sharper handling than the PS4S tires, so they fit well right between the PSS and PS4S models. Also, the wear is 340 on Conti vs 300 Michelins, but these days they say wear figures don't mean all that much.
#19
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Update after about 2 months of heavy highway and street use.... 2009 C2S daily driver.
I am liking these Michelins more and more... but... I still feel they are mushyer than my PSSs and.... they don't seem to track straight at really fast highway speeds.... the car seems to wander a bit. So... I had an alignment done .... nothing too out of spec... my usual where I have a tiny bit more negative camber added in the front and most of the negative camber removed in the rear. This is virutally the same alignment I had with my PSSs....... and car just seems to wander a bit with these new Michelins.
Beyond that above, the tires just grip way more than the PSSs did in just about every condition including cold tires.... they also seem to be more quiet although that is a tough call as my PSSs were pretty worn out in the end. (BTW, I have always found Michelin to make a quiet tire... all I have owned from them were really quiet.)
I still feel that maybe I should have ordered the PSSs which are still on the market..... tough to argue with more grip as they are safer.... I dunno.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
I am liking these Michelins more and more... but... I still feel they are mushyer than my PSSs and.... they don't seem to track straight at really fast highway speeds.... the car seems to wander a bit. So... I had an alignment done .... nothing too out of spec... my usual where I have a tiny bit more negative camber added in the front and most of the negative camber removed in the rear. This is virutally the same alignment I had with my PSSs....... and car just seems to wander a bit with these new Michelins.
Beyond that above, the tires just grip way more than the PSSs did in just about every condition including cold tires.... they also seem to be more quiet although that is a tough call as my PSSs were pretty worn out in the end. (BTW, I have always found Michelin to make a quiet tire... all I have owned from them were really quiet.)
I still feel that maybe I should have ordered the PSSs which are still on the market..... tough to argue with more grip as they are safer.... I dunno.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
#20
Nordschleife Master
#21
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Thanks for the update Bruce. Based on your feedback and from others earlier in the thread, my conclusion, and assuming one is into Michelins and can find a set (of 4) MPSS, is get them while still available as they are currently less expensive than MP 4S. At least that is the direction I'm headed ... but good to know the MP 4S is fine too.
#22
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Am I deluded? Is the toe adjustment really the reason I am getting less wear? Maybe, but my experience tells me to take most of that negative rear camber out.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
#24
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Peace
Bruce in Philly
#25
While it seems like camber would create edge wear, on our cars, assuming you don't run the values to extremes, it is the toe in that rips up the inner edge.
#26
Nordschleife Master
My objective is to limit inner wear.... there is a ton written about this.... it's like an oil thread. I get inner rear wear even after a spec alignment.... I choose to take out most of this negative camber in the belief that will get less inner wear and longer tire life. With my chosen alignments, I get less inner wear.
Am I deluded? Is the toe adjustment really the reason I am getting less wear? Maybe, but my experience tells me to take most of that negative rear camber out.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Am I deluded? Is the toe adjustment really the reason I am getting less wear? Maybe, but my experience tells me to take most of that negative rear camber out.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
A proper street alignment is factory spec throughout with the exception of rear toe-in which should be minimized. What you have now does not surprise me to cause what you describe.
Cautionary note: the factory sets large toe-in to keep the car 'ultra' safe for hot-headed drivers who do not understand 911 dynamics. A high toe-in in the rear leads to more understeer. Less toe-in, less understeer, less inner wear. But... with less understeer, be prepared to deal with 911 dynamics (still present in a 997 - especially a rear-driven one).
#27
Rennlist Member
Good test of MSS & MPS4 in Grassroots Motorsports June issue.
#28
I truly believe that to retain the handling and ride of this car as it was engineered, OEM tires are the way to go. Yes the rear tires wear quickly but for me that's part and parcel of the cars ability to point and shoot.
#30
Rennlist Member
I kinda feel the same way. Of course I've no proof to back it up, but knowing the miles of testing racked up on the OEM tires, it just makes me sleep better at night lol