pfbz

Just committed to a C4S, PPI later this week...

Any thoughts on specifics I should have checked and on the car in general? I'm pretty familiar with 996's, 997.1's, a bit less familiar with .2 generatio and the DFI engines.

2009 C4S, 60K miles, $43K

• Manual transmission.
• Black over tan.
• Clean carfax, no known paintwork.
• Fresh service including engine oil, tranny oil, brake fluid, serp. belt, filters, etc)
• Seems well serviced in past, some carfax documented, some from a local indy who doesn't publish to carfax but has given a verbal history of service. Trying to get a written copy.
• Good but not perfect exterior cosmetics... A few very small dings, could use a good paint correction for swirls. Some repairable wheel rash on the Turbo wheels..(my local wheel shop charges about $100/wheel for repairs)
• Good but not perfect interior cosmetics. Some minor wear on the more heavily touched painted or leather surfaces.
• Low option car... Standard C4S features (PASM, for example), Sport Chrono, Turbo wheels. Done. No stereo/nav/bluetooth upgrades (which is ok with me, as my iphone with waze and a $100 iSimple Bluetooth Tranzit will do a better job than the factory nav anyway..)

Some Questions:

• Thoughts on the deal overall? Seems to me like a decent price for a non-garage-queen but very well sorted 997.2 C4S...
• Any thoughts on DFI/997.2 generation specifics I should make sure they look at during the PPI?
• PPI shop mentioned the water pump... I know M96/M97 engines had fairly frequent waterpump failures, sometimes causing problems if the impeller debris clogged passages, do DFI engines have the same waterpump design and are they failure prone?
• I've heard mixed reports on bore scoring on DFI engines... I know ANY engine can have bore scoring issues, but did the DFI generation engines resolve the earlier bore scoring issues? Worth having a bore scope done just to check?
• Any specifics on the revised .2 AWD system that is failure prone or specific things that should be checked in a PPI?
• I believe .2 C4S's had a mechanical rear LSD... Do they wear out fairly quickly like earlier 996 mechanical LSD's? Can they be checked?

Macster

PPI should be able to educate you what needs to be checked. Otherwise you have selected the wrong place/person to PPI the car.

My usual reply when asked what to check? Everything. The <insert car details here> is just a used car and you want to be sure it has no issues and if it has issues they are reasonable issues to address and don't signify deeper problems (like abuse, misuse, lack of proper servicing, water/rodent damage, etc.).

If the water pump is showing no signs of leaking you can elect to wait until gives you some sign it needs to be replaced. Either by making noise or leaking. I think the water pump coming apart and filing the engine with debris is in most cases a self-inflicted problem. The water pump gives some early warning of trouble but the owner chooses to ignore the signs and doesn't bother to investigate.

(When I heard a new noise -- low frequency grumbling that got a bit louder as a cold engine idled I launched an immediate investigation and removed the belt and confirmed the noise was no coming from inside the engine, then went around all the accessory drives and found the water pump with just a hint of play compared to the other drives. That was enough for me. I had the car flat bedded 25 miles to the nearest dealer and had the water pump/T-stat replaced. In another water pump incident, with another car, I caught the strong odor of anti-freeze with the car hot (but not overheated) from running around a parking lot on a hot summer's day. I got the car right over to the dealer and the tech put the car on a lift and we both spotted leak sign at the water pump. I left the car to have a new water pump/T-stat installed and got a shuttle ride home. My point is one doesn't treat a failing or failed -- if it leaks/makes noise it has failed! -- water pump lightly.)

Bore scoring I can't help you. I have not bothered to try to stay up to date on the latest "news" and what have you. You can have the bores scoped if you want. But a good test ride/then test drive that doesn't turn up any scary noises or other signs of bore scoring is good too. You also get a feel for how the engine runs under a variety of operating conditions and get to experience the rest of the car in its natural state: Engine running and the car being driven.

Not sure about the mechanical LSD. If the car did come with one at 60k miles it is probably not as good as it was from the factory (to state the obvious) so a refresh/rebuild or replacement with an aftermarket unit is probably called for if you want, a, well, fresh LSD. Unless the diff is making noises or has leak sign you can probably do this some months after you buy the car.

Wheel rash suggests some curb contact -- obviously -- and this suggests (unless it has already been addressed) the alignment could have been affected. You probably want to budget for a good alignment to maximize tire life.

I am not current on 997 market prices so I have nothing to offer you in this regard.

OKB

carfax then complete inspection, have porsche look up warranteed service history

Bomar Shelby

I bought my 2009 C4S April 2016 with 75K miles on it for $45K with a lot more options so the price seems about right. Did my own research on service history as you have done and had a PPI done at another Porsche dealer. If the PPI comes back positive and you like the car, buy, drive, enjoy.

wjk_glynn

The base MSRP for a 2009 C4S was $93.2K. With the options you listed, Those options bring the total up to ~$95.4K.

My recent experience implies the typical asking price of a 'clean' car at 60K miles would be ~47% of MSRP (i.e. ~$45K).



So an asking price of $43K (i.e. ~45% of MSRP) is in the right ballpark.

Now of course every car/seller/buyer/situation is unique.

But you might be able to knock another $K or two off that, maybe more. But even if you couldn't knock the price down any more, you're still probably getting it at a reasonable price given the service history (IMO).

Just my 2c.

Now... and here's an important question... does the car speak to you? When you look at it, do you go 'hamana hamana' ?

That's a hugely important factor, and don't settle on that no matter what...

Karl.

kellen

Totally agree!

ATSR

When doing the PPI, ask for a DME report.