macarbon_john

We sold the final set of Rev1 buttons today. We'll be putting 5 sets into production next week so we'll have more available shortly. Contact me if you;d like to reserve a set.

We finished the new Illustrator files for the graphics today as well.

Here is one more pic for comparison....

91219

Hi, these look great. Could you clarify the pricing and buying process?

I don't really need velvet bags or cleaning supplies or tools, so just reasonable pricing for well produced replacement parts would be very much appreciated (and popular, I suspect).

Thanks,

John (no relation to any other "John" here!)

TheBruce

Email John from MAcarbon @ johnb@macarbon.com. $160 a set with a $200 deposit for the core exchange.

macarbon_john

Hi Guys,

Six sets went into production on Friday. This includes the set of switches returned by TheBruce. (See pic) These should be ready in about 3 weeks time. Two sets have already been spoken for.

We've added the parts to our website so in the future it will be easier to order. But for the moment, feel free to email us or call the shop. If you order through the site, you have to pay now. So best to just give us a shout. We don't like to take anyone's money until we've shipped.

Here is the link to the site:
https://www.macarbon.com/index.php?o...=1&Itemid=95#a

We are working on modifying the site to better account for shipping on the small item. We considered using USPS but by the time insurance and signature services are added, its almost the same price as FedEx.

Also, we hope to have an install guide ready early next week.

Climarepair.com

Hello Guys,

Some before and after pictures a customer from Italy just sent... Thanks Luigi!








If you want further assistance you can contact us at www.climarepair.com

Remember rennlist members can benefit from an additional discount

Best regards,
John

cosm3os

Nice try Climarepair!

I'll buy from the US company, with a great reputation, who stands behind their product by offering a refund if I'm not happy.

91219

Its too early to buy from anyone. $160 plus $200 core deposit is silly, and the Spanish solution is flakey.

I'm going to clean up mine with Goof-off and paint and wait to see what happens with replacements.

macarbon_john

I agree that what we are charging might seem silly, certainly to a spouse!

Keep in mind the $200 deposit is refunded to you when we get the old buttons back. If you want to keep your old buttons, we can see about reducing that number. But $200 is about our cost to procure a set and is high enough that we'll get the old buttons back fairly quickly.

As for the $160, its the price that needs to be charged to make it worth doing. We developed the process, created the graphic files and bought a good number of used AC units for their buttons. Then we actually have to do the work and deliver the product! That's not even considering the overhead every business has. We'd like to make a few dollars for our effort.

I would submit that for many on this forum, on an hourly basis, your personal cost to clean your buttons, buy paint, and respray it (to your satisfaction and without any graphics), will be close to what we are charging. Of course doing it yourself does fall into the 'semi-fun' project category so its hard to put a personal cost on it. A bigger risk is that what should be a 45 minute project to switch them, when painting turns into a project that might take all weekend to complete.

As for why we are refinishing existing buttons rather than making new buttons from scratch? Why not 3D print them or cast new ones? Or have someone do an injection molded version? Those would be good questions.

In my opinion, the piece is too detailed to yet be 3D printed or cast for optimum results. The long, thin arms, the thinness of the piece and especially the small tabs on the sides, are still too fine for the printing resolution available. All of those features are necessary to have the correct fit and feel. In my opinion, it needs to be an injection molded plastic part if you want a OEM level feel. If you are not familiar with 3D printing, the printing is the EASY part. Getting from a physical part to a printable file is where all the work is. That is not inexpensive and has the cost has to be accounted for as well.

New parts could be injection molded and probably sell for much less. But that requires a substantial investment in development and tooling and then in inventory. Who knows how many sets you'd need to sell before it pays off. There would also be a high probability that some other vendor (curiously in the same location as your supplier) would pop up suddenly with the same product for much less...

Another option to get a lower cost and a nice result would be if someone knows a person who builds model airplanes and such. That person could probably develop some masks and knows how to paint etc. I've seen many of these hobbyist solutions (for carbon fiber, sticky buttons, handcrafted cupholders etc) over the years. They tend to go as fast as them came. The person who thought it was fun to do one for his buddy or his own, quickly realizes that doing the same for other people (usually at night after a long day of work) is not worth the effort or the hassle.

91219, I do agree with your last statement on waiting to see what happens! I'm anxious to get our second batch finished. We are addressing my personal concerns with Rev1. I think we'll be in good shape then.

Climarepair.com

Hello cosm3os, just for the record, you never asked for a refund, you opened a claim straight with PayPal and they gave us the reason. We have issued refunds to customers who asked so and sent the switches back to us (and since we released V2, only a couple customers asked so, and it was because they sold their cars before installing our buttons).

Sincerely, John

TheBruce

I sent John my credit card info on Monday, received the new switches on Tuesday via Fedex, shipped back my old switches on Wednesday with a prepaid Fedex label, and had the core deposit refunded on Thursday. I call that pretty great service. Thats why John and MAcarbon have a great name in the community.

Now lets compare that with my Climarepair experience...

• I ordered on Feb 8, paid $99 for the switches and $10 "expedited shipping" which was supposed to arrive in 5-10 days
• I emailed them on Feb 23 when nothing arrived
• I spent another 5 days and 10 emails being told my understanding of the term "expedited shipping" was actually wrong. Climarepair then informed me "expedited shipping" actually had no impact on my "order processing time". The order processing time was still unknown. But once it was known, "it would fly through expedited shipping". Ah...ok.
• I finally received the order on March 13. Like everyone else, I was not impressed with the product quality. It was obviously homemade on a 3D printer.
• I emailed Climarepair on March 13 asking for a refund.
• No reply.
• I emailed again on March 15 threatening to flag the charges on my credit card.
• I finally got a reply on March 16 and was told I needed to send pictures of the units as "maybe I got faulty ones". I sent back the following:
  
  
  
• 4 days later he replied with this:
  
  Quote:

  From what we can see in the picture you sent us (which is a little bit too close and thus, is out of focus) there is nothing wrong with that set of buttons. Did you install them in the climate unit already? It is the only way we can check if there is some kind of problem with fitting or final results.
  He then sent me pictures of other units showing how great they looked at extreme angles from 4 feet away. This one was my favorite:
  
  
  
• I emailed back saying I was trying to be polite and didn't want to debate the issue with him anymore. I just wanted a refund.
• No reply for 7 days. I emailed again.
• He finally replied on March 28 saying it was "nice to hear from me" (?) and I would need to first ship the units back...to Spain...to determine if they were faulty
• My response:
  
  Quote:

  Hi - I think you realize what you're doing. I will just file you as a fraudulent business with my credit card company if this is the game you are going to play.
• I then spent the next 5 days and 6 emails getting a range of bizarre run arounds:
  
  Quote:

  We though you received the order already! We are playing no games, with over 1.000 customers worldwide we don't like playing games. Can you just confirm if you received or not the order already?
  Quote:

  Just checked the whole conversation history and you did receive the buttons but where not satisfied with it (sorry, I talk with several customers every day and can't remember every single case). If you received the buttons but want a refund, we have to send us back the product you purchase in order to get a refund, this is simple logic, and is stated in our product page.
  Quote:

  We clearly state in our web site that products must be returned at customers expense. This is common sense, otherwise everyone could get the switches for free.
  Quote:

  we have sold over 500 kits already and only had 18 customers giving negative feedback, curiously all of the refering to the forums. We are starting to think customers from forums do not pay attention to the pictures and videos available in our web site
• Finally on April 3 he promised to ship me new units in 2 weeks to make good.
  
  
  Quote:

  Looking again at the pictures you sent us back on March 16th, we think we are doing better now (please see attached file) so we would like to send you a new-fresh set of buttons like the ones on the image below.
• April 25 I saw his posts online talking about how great the "v2" units were. I emailed him asking why I hadn't received mine yet...
• No reply
• April 28 I emailed again
• April 30 he emailed back "it was nice to hear from me again!" (?)
• Sometime mid may I got the "v2" units, which had the same quality issues as the "v1" units. They were obviously still being made on a 3D printer.
• After 3 months I gave up and didn't even bother emailing him back for a refund. I couldn't deal with it anymore.

91219

Thanks for your explanation, and I do understand the business case, its just not worth it to me (I'm the spouse of the main driver of the car!)

Since there are potentially 100's of thousands of affected cars out there with this problem surfacing recently, I expect an investment by someone to address that market with a reasonable cost replacement may make sense soon.

Best of Luck!

ilikeyourmom

Wow! This its inexplicable. Did you ever file a claim?

cosm3os

Climarepair, you are liars! I requested a refund before you even printed mine and you refused. Here's the exchange:

2/13: I've seen the product that folks have been receiving and it doesn't appear to be the quality I'm looking for. Please cancel my order and refund my payment. Thanks,

Response: Hello Kyle, thanks for reaching us!


We can not take responsibility for what others do with their cameras.

However, we are creating a customer picture gallery, since we ask our clients to give us feedback and people is cooperating with this initiative.

This is the last picture we received from Europe,a few hours ago (we really can’t understand how someone can not be happy with this quality, we post high definition pictures in our web site, available prior to the purchase. Right now we have a 97% satisfaction rate among all orders sent.

Please take in mind there are 3 other companies (competitors) well known that offers a solution for the peeling *****. We can not eliminate the possibility of unfair competition played by them, so we advice to check official pictures and take in consideration only well known forum members opinions.

I offered: Full refund and cover the postage back if I'm not satisfied?

You said no:
Hellon Kyle,


Unfortunately (and according to the terms and conditions available in the product page during check out processes) all sales are final

Please note! To prevent unauthorized reproductions/copies our standard return policy does not apply to replacement switches. Please check all available pictures of the product prior to order. All sales are final.

http://www.climarepair.com/porsche-r...-unit-987-997/

In addition to this policy that applies to this product, we build each specific kit on demand, and we include free shipping worldwide. We really can not violate terms here and pay the cost of two worldwide shippings. Take in mind that two way shipping cost is almost $60.

We try our best to offer the best product, main concern is durability. If a customer wants the very same OEM finish, they will have to buy a $600 air conditioning unit and replace it every 3 years (because that OEM finish does worn out every 3 years).

Sincerely,

The climarepair.com Team
www.climarepair.com

I asked a second time for a refund: Well then cancel my order and refund my money. Thanks.

You said no again:
Hello again Kyle,


As we already explained:
▼ Hide quoted textHellon Kyle,


Unfortunately (and according to the terms and conditions available in the product page during check out processes) all sales are final

Please note! To prevent unauthorized reproductions/copies our standard return policy does not apply to replacement switches. Please check all available pictures of the product prior to order. All sales are final.
My third request:
Are you saying you won't cancel my order?

Four days after I made 3 requests to cancel, you send out the switches. They were ****!

I made a fourth request for refund: Here a a couple of pics. I expressed concern with the quality of your product after seeing other customers' pics and before you shipped mine. I asked to cancel, but you refused. It is clear that the poor quality of mine is consistent with what others have received, rather than as represented by you.

I don't want another set. I want a refund.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
▼ Hide quoted text
On Mar 9, 2017 5:25 AM, Porsche ClimaRepair <porscheclimarepair@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Kyle, thanks for reaching us!


Please provide pictures of the switches you received in order to evaluate if you received a faulty set of buttons.
Sincerely,

Request No. 5 Sent you pictures. Since I have not heard back from you, should I assume that you believe they demonstrate the quality of the product that all of your customers should expect and let others on the web know that you are proud to sell this quality of product to them? Or will I get a refund?

You admitted you sent me ****: Hello Kyle, sorry for the late reply, we do not work during weekends.


In fact, as we can see by the pictures you sent us, you received a faulty kit. Those vertical groves shouldn’t be there.

Attached you will find some pictures sent by some of our customers. As you can see quality is much better what you got.

6th request: Here's the problem. It is clear you are incapable of producing a quality product. Just give me the refund and move on.

You say no again: Hello Kyle,



Sorry if we sound rude, but were incapable of checking all pictures in our website and read the whole product description, where we clearly show the finish of our buttons, and where we clearly states all sales are final.

Original buttons cost $700 and comes with the whole AC unit. Originals peel off after a few months of use. We offer this at 1/7 of the original price and last forever, this is the advantage. We clearly show a lot of pictures of our product in our web site so customer can decide if this is what he is looking for. A better quality could be achieved but this is a very small market and price for the replacement buttons would rise up to $250.
Sincerely,

I'm done: I am taking this up with my credit card company. You ship another set at your own peril. I've seen pictures of the product you shipped to others, and it's the same quality that you have admitted to me is defective.

SO, PEOPLE, YOU CAN SEE THAT IF YOU ORDER FROM CLIMAREPAIR, THEY WILL HIDE BEHIND A SPECIOUS WARRANTY ("IT LOOKS JUST LIKE THE PICTURES ON THE WEBSITE") AND THEY WILL REFUSE A REFUND AND MAKE YOU SEND BACK, AT YOUR EXPENSE, THE **** THEY SENT YOU FOR A PROMISE THE NEXT SET WILL BE BETTER.
ALL THE WHILE HIDING ACROSS THE ATLANTIC.

THEN THEY COME ON HERE AND TELL LIES ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS! NO REFUND REQUESTS? HOW ABOUT 6?!

Quadcammer

at least climarepair pony'ed up as a paid vendor. Not really right for MaCarbon to compete without it.

macarbon_john

We've been a sponsor for the last two years. I forgot I was posting under my 'personal' company account rather than our main 'sponsor' MAcarbon account. So we've paid our dues.