Forum and internet ruining ownership experience…?
05-08-2016, 10:01 AM
#46
Instructor
I don't know much about P-engines, that is why I'm not paying much attention to those kind of internet posting (you may say that I'm a kind of ignorant...well, maybe on the P-field). But I really enjoy driving my car...with already has 38.5K miles, and putting some money in parts and labor, here or there, "just in case".
But the good news are: There is a company offering a top-notch 4.0 engine which can solve most of our P-engine problems (wondering if we can get the same HP and torque of the GT3 RS with the Jake's motor?); and lot of solutions for brakes, suspensions, exhausts, forged wheels, body, tons of used like-new parts on eBay, forums, and P-Dealerships like Suncoast or Melbourne FL which offer best price on the market for OEM pieces...just in case we need it.
But the good news are: There is a company offering a top-notch 4.0 engine which can solve most of our P-engine problems (wondering if we can get the same HP and torque of the GT3 RS with the Jake's motor?); and lot of solutions for brakes, suspensions, exhausts, forged wheels, body, tons of used like-new parts on eBay, forums, and P-Dealerships like Suncoast or Melbourne FL which offer best price on the market for OEM pieces...just in case we need it.
In a twisted way, I'm actually hoping that someday my engine blows up, although I sincerely doubt it will ever happen.
The wife is too practical to let me buy a GT3, so the only way I can get one is by upgrading my 997.1 part by part, like the old Johnny Cash song.
05-08-2016, 10:14 AM
#47
OP, thank you for this thread. It is a good discussion. I do not have the skill level of many folks on this forum (both DIY or knowledge about Pcars) but I do love mine and enjoy learning about these cars. Indeed, there are a lot of posts about stuff that doesn't work right or from people seeking information about anomalies. To me, these are invaluable.
In my recent 18 month ownership, the forums gave me the information and courage to tackle a bunch of mods myself - fvd exhaust, etc...
As well, it provided the information on how to follow oil consumption, how to listen for certain things in the engine bay. Recently I heard a little chirp occasionally -- sounded little like crickets. Well, I made a short video and shared it with my mechanic and they guessed it was either the waterpump or a tensioner pulley. In for service she went and they replaced the tensioner pulley. If I didn't know what to listen for, I could have been stuck on the side of the road with a broken pulley.
But we do have to sort through a lot of issues people have...and knowing the number of Pcars on the road, one (me) must try to understand the risk ratio so as not to ruin the ownership experience with fear of failure. My feeling overall is that these cars are very reliable compared to the alternatives so I try to put the rest of the stuff out of my mind. Hopefully that approach will pay off in the long run.
In my recent 18 month ownership, the forums gave me the information and courage to tackle a bunch of mods myself - fvd exhaust, etc...
As well, it provided the information on how to follow oil consumption, how to listen for certain things in the engine bay. Recently I heard a little chirp occasionally -- sounded little like crickets. Well, I made a short video and shared it with my mechanic and they guessed it was either the waterpump or a tensioner pulley. In for service she went and they replaced the tensioner pulley. If I didn't know what to listen for, I could have been stuck on the side of the road with a broken pulley.
But we do have to sort through a lot of issues people have...and knowing the number of Pcars on the road, one (me) must try to understand the risk ratio so as not to ruin the ownership experience with fear of failure. My feeling overall is that these cars are very reliable compared to the alternatives so I try to put the rest of the stuff out of my mind. Hopefully that approach will pay off in the long run.
05-08-2016, 01:15 PM
#48
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Be careful what you wish for. If you think reading these forums makes you uncomfortable (and some bizarrely angry).... after the glow of my new engine wore off after about 2 days...... try driving around on your 2nd engine. I never tracked the car again..... I hyper-maintained it.... I still loved the car but literally everytime I started it... and every time I thought I head a tick..... It is far better to think about ***** than how you are going to fund another car or repair.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
05-08-2016, 02:06 PM
#49
My first engine blew at 47K miles on a 50K warranty. I was actually rather happy as I was planning to keep the car a long long time.... I figured I just got another 50K miles on the end of life. Well........ then the 2nd engine blew and that was it... the economics were all upside down.
Be careful what you wish for. If you think reading these forums makes you uncomfortable (and some bizarrely angry).... after the glow of my new engine wore off after about 2 days...... try driving around on your 2nd engine. I never tracked the car again..... I hyper-maintained it.... I still loved the car but literally everytime I started it... and every time I thought I head a tick..... It is far better to think about ***** than how you are going to fund another car or repair.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Be careful what you wish for. If you think reading these forums makes you uncomfortable (and some bizarrely angry).... after the glow of my new engine wore off after about 2 days...... try driving around on your 2nd engine. I never tracked the car again..... I hyper-maintained it.... I still loved the car but literally everytime I started it... and every time I thought I head a tick..... It is far better to think about ***** than how you are going to fund another car or repair.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Can you share what the fail mode of 1st and 2nd motor was? Also which model car and engine?
05-08-2016, 02:12 PM
#50
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
2000 Boxster S - 1st failure at 47K miles ... reason unknown... dealer mechanic "didn't think it was IMS", crated the motor with oil sample and shipped to Germany. Oil filter loaded with metal pieces. 2nd failure at 150K on engine, 197K on chassis... failure NOT ims but unknown... my indy thought it was the ims but the guy who purchased the car pulled the IMS bearing and it was fine - this leads me to believe the IMS is unfairly blamed for a percentage of failures.
Don't assume because it was Boxster it was sub-standard. It is the same engine in all the Porsche sports cars except GT and Turbo models (although supposedly the plan was all new design when released in '97). The engine design remained the same until 2009 but had incremental changes to mitigate the long list of failure modes during the 11-12 (?) years of run.
Perception of risk and emotional response to this and the whole M96/M97 issue, my post here, the forums..... is based on an individual's own emotional and intellectual makeup .... real data is not known and even the data from the class action suite is flat out wrong because it addresses only one failure mode. Put yourself in my position..... how would you feel pre, post, and post failure? Some would want me to shut the f-up. Some would run from the brand cursing.... for me, I rewarded the brand but refused to even consider that engine design regardless of price. A 2009 DFI engine was for me. But this is just me.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
05-08-2016, 05:19 PM
#51
Nordschleife Master
well said.
I posted this stuff before so it is no secret.
2000 Boxster S - 1st failure at 47K miles ... reason unknown... dealer mechanic "didn't think it was IMS", crated the motor with oil sample and shipped to Germany. Oil filter loaded with metal pieces. 2nd failure at 150K on engine, 197K on chassis... failure NOT ims but unknown... my indy thought it was the ims but the guy who purchased the car pulled the IMS bearing and it was fine - this leads me to believe the IMS is unfairly blamed for a percentage of failures.
Don't assume because it was Boxster it was sub-standard. It is the same engine in all the Porsche sports cars except GT and Turbo models (although supposedly the plan was all new design when released in '97). The engine design remained the same until 2009 but had incremental changes to mitigate the long list of failure modes during the 11-12 (?) years of run.
Perception of risk and emotional response to this and the whole M96/M97 issue, my post here, the forums..... is based on an individual's own emotional and intellectual makeup .... real data is not known and even the data from the class action suite is flat out wrong because it addresses only one failure mode. Put yourself in my position..... how would you feel pre, post, and post failure? Some would want me to shut the f-up. Some would run from the brand cursing.... for me, I rewarded the brand but refused to even consider that engine design regardless of price. A 2009 DFI engine was for me. But this is just me.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
2000 Boxster S - 1st failure at 47K miles ... reason unknown... dealer mechanic "didn't think it was IMS", crated the motor with oil sample and shipped to Germany. Oil filter loaded with metal pieces. 2nd failure at 150K on engine, 197K on chassis... failure NOT ims but unknown... my indy thought it was the ims but the guy who purchased the car pulled the IMS bearing and it was fine - this leads me to believe the IMS is unfairly blamed for a percentage of failures.
Don't assume because it was Boxster it was sub-standard. It is the same engine in all the Porsche sports cars except GT and Turbo models (although supposedly the plan was all new design when released in '97). The engine design remained the same until 2009 but had incremental changes to mitigate the long list of failure modes during the 11-12 (?) years of run.
Perception of risk and emotional response to this and the whole M96/M97 issue, my post here, the forums..... is based on an individual's own emotional and intellectual makeup .... real data is not known and even the data from the class action suite is flat out wrong because it addresses only one failure mode. Put yourself in my position..... how would you feel pre, post, and post failure? Some would want me to shut the f-up. Some would run from the brand cursing.... for me, I rewarded the brand but refused to even consider that engine design regardless of price. A 2009 DFI engine was for me. But this is just me.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
05-08-2016, 08:40 PM
#52
I know about the IMS and the bore scoring issues before decided on my 997.1. The way I look at it; if my engine blows up then it's just bad luck on my part. The best I can do is extended warranty.
Porsche knows about these issues and they still didn't check for either of those in their CPO program. That to means the chances are small.
The net and this forum in general have shown me stuffs people did that I didn't even imagine was possible.
The only regret I had is that I fail to realize the last turbo Mezger is the 997.1. If I knew that before hand I would have swing for a turbo.
Porsche knows about these issues and they still didn't check for either of those in their CPO program. That to means the chances are small.
The net and this forum in general have shown me stuffs people did that I didn't even imagine was possible.
The only regret I had is that I fail to realize the last turbo Mezger is the 997.1. If I knew that before hand I would have swing for a turbo.
05-08-2016, 08:57 PM
#53
Pro
05-08-2016, 09:56 PM
#54
Instructor
My first engine blew at 47K miles on a 50K warranty. I was actually rather happy as I was planning to keep the car a long long time.... I figured I just got another 50K miles on the end of life. Well........ then the 2nd engine blew and that was it... the economics were all upside down.
This is just approximate, so it could be 1 in a million or maybe as low as 1 in 100,000. But either way, the odds of you dying in a lightening strike are similar. The odds of you dying in the car itself are about 1/300 (MUCH higher).
So by all rational means, we should be much more concerned about getting killed in the car than about the possibility of the thing blowing up twice. The lifetime odds of being killed by a motor vehicle in any way (pedestrian, motorcycle, passenger, driver) is about 1 in 100!
05-08-2016, 10:25 PM
#55
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
What are the odds of that? Porsche sells roughly 30,000 cars a year. Let's say that in any given year, 10 of them will have engine failures (this is per year). That is a rate of 1 in 3000. So if you had two fail in a 5 year period each, the odds are something like (5 * 1/3000)^2 = 1 in 360,000!
This is just approximate, so it could be 1 in a million or maybe as low as 1 in 100,000. But either way, the odds of you dying in a lightening strike are similar. The odds of you dying in the car itself are about 1/300 (MUCH higher).
So by all rational means, we should be much more concerned about getting killed in the car than about the possibility of the thing blowing up twice. The lifetime odds of being killed by a motor vehicle in any way (pedestrian, motorcycle, passenger, driver) is about 1 in 100!
This is just approximate, so it could be 1 in a million or maybe as low as 1 in 100,000. But either way, the odds of you dying in a lightening strike are similar. The odds of you dying in the car itself are about 1/300 (MUCH higher).
So by all rational means, we should be much more concerned about getting killed in the car than about the possibility of the thing blowing up twice. The lifetime odds of being killed by a motor vehicle in any way (pedestrian, motorcycle, passenger, driver) is about 1 in 100!
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 05-10-2016 at 10:35 AM.
05-09-2016, 12:05 AM
#56
Instructor
I wonder if other owners recognize this feeling, and maybe even know how to deal with it…?
Having owned a few different cars thru the years from 80sand 90s Ferraris, and Lamborghinis to Corvettes and vintage Porches, I am surprised that with THIS car I am suddenly spending time worrying about my car shealth, to the point where it affects my enjoyment of the car.
Having owned a few different cars thru the years from 80sand 90s Ferraris, and Lamborghinis to Corvettes and vintage Porches, I am surprised that with THIS car I am suddenly spending time worrying about my car shealth, to the point where it affects my enjoyment of the car.
The reason I question the benefit is:
1. Moditis. Seeing everybody else's mods and browsing the classifieds makes me constantly think about upgrading something.
2. Reading about people's failures. Every day a Porsche somewhere in the world is blowing up, getting totaled, cracking in half, or something. After a while, I feel like an ER doctor or a police officer. You start to think your daily view represents reality.
3. Keep up with the Joneses. People on the forums are always talking about trading this for that, leasing a new X or buying a new Y. Truth is, I've yet to obtain the skill necessary to even extract 50% of the performance from my car.
But where the forums really excel is when you have a maintenance, repair or servicing issue. Try doing something simple like removing the front bumper without a detailed, photographed, step by step instruction from a forum. The service manual is vague at best, in places.
I think you have convinced me to go on a complete, cold turkey, forum cessation program. But before that, just one more post...