niche

This forum has made my ownership much more enjoyable...then again I've owned mostly aircooleds! ;-)

Rick-A-Shay

This forum and members are killing my pocketbook as I continually get more ideas on how to improve the (fill in the blank) on my Porsche

Bruce In Philly

Internet forums are total enhancement to ownership. Gave me courage to DIY and continues to enhance the brand and car experience.

Regarding reading about carnage, well get used to it. It is no different than the news (or what we had as news here in the USA).

Peace
Bruce in Philly

mdemo

I have to agree with many posts. I been in the market for a 997 cab and probably would have pulled a trigger on a .1 model that i feel is good value but then started reading on here about IMS's and bore scoring. So that had me change my thought process and has me looking at .2's now. Granted, the forums are good for their useful knowledge and insight but there are negatives as well having people panic about issues they prob will never encounter. This happens with everything though, health boards, boats etc. On my boat board i read about the diesel engine dropping valves. So had me listening to sounds and doing unnecessary preventive stuff. Bottom line, just use the thing and enjoy it. Dont get so hung up on catastrophic failures etc. Plus like someone else has said, people usually go on a board to tell about the negative stuff which can be overshadowed by the 100 times more people that love the thing and have no issues. In the end ill still be waffling over buying a .1 or .2 997 hahaha.

Jaskfri

Great thread. I bought a 997.1 last year as a quick decision with no Porsche background knowledge. I did a PPI at a dealer and jumped in. I now know what I should have worried about in theory but now I don't care. I love driving it and will take my chances.

vbb

Nobody likes to waste money, and I think that's what the fear all comes down to.

Even if you got a good deal on a used Porsche, you've paid a lot of money for a car and don't want to feel that it will end up leaving you stranded, or leaving you with a five-figure repair bill. We all expect when we spend our money, we get the benefit of our bargain. I think it is right to expect that a car as expensive as the 911 won't just fall apart on you or suffer catastrophic engine or transmission failure.

That said, there's a lot of truth to the fact that it really comes down to what you can afford. If your 911 breaks, will it be an inconvenience for you, or will it be a major financial issue? The answer to that question likely factors in to your comfort level regarding the ownership experience. Chances are very, very high that proportionally, this car will not cost you much more to own than any other car, save for the fact that routine maintenance and parts are more expensive... but that's what we expect in a high performance sports car. However, a part of owning this car is the understanding that if there is a major issue, that it will cost much more to fix than on a less expensive vehicle.

The solutions are simple. Either buy a comprehensive warranty for the peace of mind, or buy the 911 you can comfortably afford to fix or replace if there is some catastrophe. And of course, do your due diligence in the car that you are purchasing and keep up with the service/maintenance. That insecurity/lack of enjoyment you feel by reading horror stories on an internet forum says less about the forum and more about you maybe being a little beyond your personal comfort zone. If you have a budget of $75K to spend on a car, maybe don't buy a $74K car... consider buying a $50K car. You'll probably enjoy it more because you know you have a little breathing room "just in case."

Philster

Every car I've had, from the 90's til now, many enthusiast-focused performance models, all had a KABOOM flaw that was catastrophic to the engine or trans... (or so I learned on the interwebs and old message boards before the interwebs were real).

Some cylinder that got starved, some pistons that slapped, some clutch that only lasted with a mod, some transmission that fell out if you backed up and blinked one eye, some bottom end that was weak and needed low zinc oil so oil passages didn't clog, some top end that MUST HAVE ZINC RICH OIL!!!!!!!!!

Let me put it like this: See that Dodge Daytona Shelby in my sig? I lived in happy oblivion since the 1980's with that car. Ugh... I joined Turbo Dodge Forums. OMG... it has bad wrist pins, the pistons slap and the engine will melt if the CEO of Exxon-Mobile doesn't **** into the crank after every oil change!

(also... because I have the stock wastegate and never had a new blow-off valve added, I'm not permitted in Dodge Turbo Heaven.)

.

Nip are

Good topic OP and good dialog from everyone. There are a couple things not mentioned that I believe add to the anxiety of owning one of these delightful toys. Porsche has a reputation for building extremely high quality automobiles so a lot of people come into ownership with an expectation that they are perfect. Then they start reading here about the occasional kaboom or the chronic defect and suddenly their image is shattered. Secondly, when a kaboom does happen the costs can be stratospheric.


My first experiences were many years ago first with a 69 911 and later a 1980 SC. Neither ever had a serious problem but to be honest, I worried the entire time about an engine or transmission failure. And that was well before the internet gave rise to automated fear mongering. Its scary to think that a toy which you may have spent more on than is prudent could nail you with a $10-$20k repair bill. That combined with some real screw ups by Porsche that we all know about gives rise to some rational concerns.


It's ironic that in the world of high end performance cars these are probably the most reliable and yet many of us worry so much about them, myself included. It's a gamble, like many things in life but with this one the odds are definitely in your favor.

DWNDRAFT

OK, I think the first post was not perfectly formulated from my side.


I love ethusiast forums! A great example is that I belive I just found my annyoing 2-3000rpms rattle. A 20min search thru a forum last night, and I walked staright out and found a weld on the bracket of me PSE have cracked, making an unmistable noise when you dab it by hand. Bingo.


The point was that I have never before been in a model community where there is such a strong focus on the problems the cars have, or maybe I have just been ignorant all those other times (those cars did have their issue, as do all)
Again, this is not THIS or another forum in particular, but just anywhere online, reflected thru buyers guides and articles. I cannot help thinking if the relativly large build numbers and potential costumers for fixes and repairs feed this syndrom? And yes I realize that is also great thing...


I did not recall many timing chain guide fix services and warnings for my old 348, for an example. (that did actually break).


This is not about accepting to fork out 15K for just another engine because you can, or worring more about your car more than
your family etc.It was simply an observation that these things take up much more space than I have seen before in a community.


Might be self-feeding monster issue.


SO, I need to learn the car and will likely learn to live with it

vbb

I was on the Bimmerpost forums when the N54 (used in the turbo 6 in the 335i) was first launched, and I owned one of those. The problems the HPFP had were unreal, and it certainly clogged up the boards.

I do agree though, a large number of posts on this particular forum seem to involve hand-wringing over the potential for a catastrophic failure. Just don't click those threads no matter how strong the temptation.

CheckbookMechanic

I happily jumped back into Porsche ownership with my 997.1 and drive it hard every day.

Like others have stated, almost all enthusiast forums have their lists of horror stories from engines exploding to welds cracking and causing all sorts of wiggles, niggles, and funny sounds in the night. Porsche sold 1000s of cars with the M96/97 engine and people on this board are just a minority of everyone who owns or owned one.

I really enjoy this forum for the DIY articles, seeing how people are modifying their cars, and the general happiness people get from owning a 911.

stevepow

I think this forum is a great resource - not only for issues, but also for ways to improve, and enjoy, and understand the car and ownership.

I don't have time to worry about the problems I don't have - barely have time to worry about the ones I do have.

Figure out what would make you feel better and do that - maybe it means a warranty, or a repair fund, or avoiding the doom and gloom posts, keeping your car servied, or whatever works.

Ben Z

I find the forums invaluable sources of information, so long as one has the background knowledge to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Here's an example: My engine was ticking, two indies diagnosed it as lifters. On the internet, experts Jake and Tony have said it's almost never lifters but rather piston slap from scored bores, and that most mechanics "don't know what they don't know".

Turns out, my car DID have bad lifters...several of them in fact. So Jake was just fearmongering, right? Well, wait a minute and hold on! Coming from a healthcare background and having worked through college doing auto mechanics, I know that if two problems have similar symptoms, finding conclusive evidence of one problem does not prove the other problem doesn't also exist simultaneously.

At my insistence, further investigation was done. A borescope down the spark plug hole showed nothing. BUT, significant scoring was found on the piston skirts. From reading the internet I knew that was a precursor to bore scoring.
So I opted to go with an RND engine.

Thus the "internet paranoia" saved me the cost of having a lifter job (even though one was needed) done on an engine that was in the process of self-destruction, and it also allowed me to get the new one without paying any core charges, as no other collateral damage had yet taken place. And while I was at it I got the IMS Solution, so to be done with the IMS controversy once and for all. I happen to like this car, so to me putting the money into it vs into a newer car (which would depreciate that much anyway, and could still have expensive problems) was reasonable.

However, if I was the unethical type I could have just buttoned it back up and sold it to someone who doesn't read the internet

Tmistry

Amen! I can't count the number of issues I pinpointed in minutes using the knowledge of this forum. I don't think I could own Porsche's without a resource like this.

Ahsai

Haven't heard much from ppl going with the RND engine. Did you share anything in a post?

Also, how did you find the scoring on the piston skirt? Engine was disassembled?