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View Poll Results: Poll: Have you had bore scoring on your 997.1 or 997.2 engine?
Yes, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
40
11.53%
Yes, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
2
0.58%
No, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
196
56.48%
No, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
109
31.41%
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll

Poll: Scored cylinder failure for your 997, Y or N? tell us (yr, 997.1 or 997.2)

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Old 06-18-2016, 09:50 AM
  #31  
Fahrer
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Originally Posted by JustinCase View Post
Yes. 2008 C2S Cab -- some scoring near the top of cylinder 6.

Since owning this car I have been scrupulous about keeping it under 4K until the oil reached 200 F, never tracked it. I have been sending in oil samples to Blackstone for the last several oil changes (@ 4,000-5,000 miles each). The analysis always returned very favorable results.

After noticing the sooty LH tail pipe, I had a leak-down test run (normal results) and the #4 plug pulled to check for wetness on that side. Dry. Same story for the next oil change.

This last oil change was my 36,000 mile major service, and all the plugs were changed. #6 was wet. Since the plugs were all out, they borescoped all cylinders and found the scoring at the top of #6. Blackstone flagged the increased oil consumption and noted an ever-so-slight uptick in Aluminum, which I doubt would have concerned them unless they knew about the oil consumption. Basically, the oil analysis was still completely in bounds.

I am currently driving my car every day (with an extra quart of oil in the boot) and carefully recording the oil consumption to measure the magnitude of any additional changes. My plan is to continue driving it, checking #6 with every oil change.

If I can stretch it to 72,000 miles (the next major service), I will have the engine rebuilt then. I would not be surprised to have to pull the trigger much sooner, though, if the scoring worsens or the valves gunk up too much and throw CELs right and left.

Thinking about either a 4.0 liter bore, or an X51 upgrade when that happens. Saving my pennies, and the savings balance at that time will likely determine my choices. The smart money is on a basic rebuild with LN bearing and oiler system, but no fancy stuff.

Once I became sensitized to the symptoms, I have noticed dark LH pipes on a LOT of 997s. I suspect there may be plenty of milder cases that are deteriorating more slowly, but are not recognized yet.
Are you the original owner?
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:34 AM
  #32  
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Always Mobil 1 - 0 W 40
3000 mile intervals.
I am not treating the new engine any differently. I'm hoping lightning doesn't strike twice and that this was an episode of bad luck. I am glad I replaced the engine rather than getting rid of the car as I am still partial to 997 over 991, but if it happens again.....I won't be buying a 3rd engine for the car.
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Old 06-19-2016, 01:25 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Fahrer View Post
Are you the original owner?
No. "Sort of" the second owner. The original owner traded in the car at a non-Porsche dealership, where it languished and was later re-sold to a second-hand lot specializing in more exotic cars, who sold it to me.

The car had 10,050 miles when I bought it, and about 9,300 miles when the original owner traded it.

I acknowledge that these are possibly suspicious circumstances. I DID have a PPI done, but that did not include a borescope. However, I got good oil mileage for the first 10,000 miles I had the car.

I do know of the car's history (except for the 700-800 miles as a second-hand car), having corresponded with the original owner. It was originally purchased in Spokane, and spent nearly all its life in a concrete underground garage in Seattle up to the point I bought it. He drove it occasionally in the area in nice weather, and made one jaunt to Las Vegas. He also had the oil changed and some minor service at 6,380 miles. Everything by the book.

With respect to weather, it never really gets cold in Seattle -- getting below freezing just 3-4 nights a year. However, as a daily driver I have driven it in freezing weather before.
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Old 06-20-2016, 08:38 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by JustinCase View Post
No. "Sort of" the second owner. The original owner traded in the car at a non-Porsche dealership, where it languished and was later re-sold to a second-hand lot specializing in more exotic cars, who sold it to me.

The car had 10,050 miles when I bought it, and about 9,300 miles when the original owner traded it.

I acknowledge that these are possibly suspicious circumstances. I DID have a PPI done, but that did not include a borescope. However, I got good oil mileage for the first 10,000 miles I had the car.

I do know of the car's history (except for the 700-800 miles as a second-hand car), having corresponded with the original owner. It was originally purchased in Spokane, and spent nearly all its life in a concrete underground garage in Seattle up to the point I bought it. He drove it occasionally in the area in nice weather, and made one jaunt to Las Vegas. He also had the oil changed and some minor service at 6,380 miles. Everything by the book.

With respect to weather, it never really gets cold in Seattle -- getting below freezing just 3-4 nights a year. However, as a daily driver I have driven it in freezing weather before.
The reason I asked is that if a car is leased, the original driver is interested in how the looks when returning it but, all to often, does not care about how well it runs later. Therefore, break-in procedures are often ignored. Those issues show up well after the lease is over. Also, sitting at a dealer and then a used car retailer, there could have been numerous cold test drives where the prospective buyer wanted to "see what she can do". These are always the unknowns. Or, it simply was bad luck.
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:35 PM
  #35  
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2006 997.1
86k miles
Scored Cylinders - NONE

"Drive it like it is your last day"
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Old 07-01-2016, 04:08 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by CamsPorsche View Post
Many have been asking to understand how many of the 997 cars have had Bore Scoring failures or cylinder related related failure normally associated with the water cooling system being inadequate or cylinder liner being made of Lokasil. The failures could be due to the water cooling system being inadequate at times, cylinder liner being made of lokasil, or tolerances between piston and cylinder being too tight not taking into account of expansion differences that occur during cold (winter) weather.

List of potential damage can be inclusive of:
- scored cylinders
- scored pistons
- cracked cylinders, D-chunk
- etc etc

Although the people on this board are not necessarily a random sampling of 997 owners it would be interesting to see how many have experienced these failures. A friend just has his engine go and knowing there's a poll for IMS, I think this is a more alarming concern for 997 owners.

Please vote only once for each 997 you own (yes or no).. you can post multiple times but only vote once.

Please include details of your car and engine if it failed (997.1 or 997.2) and when.

Please let us know if there were any mitigating factors (smoke on start-up, increased oil consumption, increased knocking or lifter sounds, etc) that might have led to the failure.

Let us know if your car is a warm climate car, cold climate car, daily driven or weekend cruiser and how much mileage is on it.

Please post only for your car, no hearsay or posting for a friend who doesn't frequent the board.

Please post what was done to rectify the failure if your engine failed (CPO engine, engine out of pocket, used engine, sold, insurance fire, pushed it into a river etc).

Hopefully this will help owners and soon-to-be owners get a sense of how frequently this occurs.
I voted no for my car a 997.2 and my wife has a 997.1 that is also a no but I didn't vote again. Both cars have just over 50k miles
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Old 07-20-2016, 05:00 AM
  #37  
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Default Scored cylinder

997.1 C2S
2005
78000km
Scored cylinder, no 6
Replacement engine from Porsche
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Old 07-25-2016, 01:48 PM
  #38  
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Parting my 997.2 C2S Manual 40K miles guards red over black....909-461-9545 local pick up in Anaheim,Ca.
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Old 07-27-2016, 06:04 PM
  #39  
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Cylinder 1 cracked at 63k with previous owner. Owner had complete engine replacement through Alpha Warranty. 2007 Targa 4S. Car was located in Park City, UT but unsure about winter driving habits. All I have are records from SLC Porsche and they state they did the replacement in august of that year. Had other services done throughout the different seasons so would assume previous owner took advantage of the 4S capabilities in the winter.
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Old 08-11-2016, 11:18 PM
  #40  
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Default Does oil contribute to listed engine problems?

Originally Posted by CamsPorsche View Post
Many have been asking to understand how many of the 997 cars have had Bore Scoring failures or cylinder related related failure normally associated with the water cooling system being inadequate or cylinder liner being made of Lokasil. The failures could be due to the water cooling system being inadequate at times, cylinder liner being made of lokasil, or tolerances between piston and cylinder being too tight not taking into account of expansion differences that occur during cold (winter) weather.

List of potential damage can be inclusive of:
- scored cylinders
- scored pistons
- cracked cylinders, D-chunk
- etc etc

Although the people on this board are not necessarily a random sampling of 997 owners it would be interesting to see how many have experienced these failures. A friend just has his engine go and knowing there's a poll for IMS, I think this is a more alarming concern for 997 owners.

Please vote only once for each 997 you own (yes or no).. you can post multiple times but only vote once.

Please include details of your car and engine if it failed (997.1 or 997.2) and when.

Please let us know if there were any mitigating factors (smoke on start-up, increased oil consumption, increased knocking or lifter sounds, etc) that might have led to the failure.

Let us know if your car is a warm climate car, cold climate car, daily driven or weekend cruiser and how much mileage is on it.

Please post only for your car, no hearsay or posting for a friend who doesn't frequent the board.

Please post what was done to rectify the failure if your engine failed (CPO engine, engine out of pocket, used engine, sold, insurance fire, pushed it into a river etc).

Hopefully this will help owners and soon-to-be owners get a sense of how frequently this occurs.
Can't help but wonder if oil brand doesn't contribute to some of these Porsche problems. I also subscribe to the Turbo Diesel Register, the journal for Ram/Cummins owners. A regular contributor is John Martin, a retired chemist and additive specialist at Lubrizol. A few years ago he mentioned that Exxon/Mobil was known in the business as the XXX company, which meant they skimp on additives. He explained additives make the oil, base stocks are just a commodity. It makes me question why Porsche has a cozy relationship with them. Could we include oil brand and weight in the survey?
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:31 PM
  #41  
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05 c2 43k miles purchased with 3 scored cylinders. Not sure of the history of the car in terms of oil brands but it seems to have been a north eastern car it's whole life.
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:55 PM
  #42  
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Anybody with an 06-08 3.6L base engine affected by this? I have been Googling for examples and haven't found any. Wondering if I really need an aftermarket warranty on my 06 C2 with 47k. I plan on keeping this car as long as I can.
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:06 PM
  #43  
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I took possession of my '11 Carrera S (997.2) about a month ago. It's an 18k one owner, and spent it's life in central IL. The previous owner left all his travel info on the nav.- almost all highway miles. The dealer, who did all the maintenance, thought the guy might have stored it winters but wasn't sure. I had the plugs changed last week and the shop bore scope the cylinders. Everything looked great according to the tech.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:51 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Ben Z View Post
'05 3.6L just over 60K mi. Car has lived its entire life in hot, tropical climate, driven daily, never tracked, always driven gently (upshifts at 3Krpm) until oil temp over 175-180, oil and filter every 6 months, all other regular maintenance by the book, always gassed with 93 octane at the corner Chevron.

I'm not sure how to answer the poll question, because technically I did not have scoring of the bore itself, just on the piston skirts, which is a precursor to eventual bore scoring.
Originally Posted by myw View Post
i believe cam will be updating the poll to include any all sort of cylinder/piston related damage

perhaps there should be another option up there for those who are aware they have a (relatively mild) issue of some sort; but car still drivable without issues (such as in BenZ case)... this way the poll takes more into effect real life usage and is a little less black and white.
Poll was not updated that I can see, but I'm expanding my reply. Yes my car was driveable, in fact the only way I found out about the piston scoring was because I decided to replace the engine rather than pay $6K for a lifter job, and the scored pistons were found when the engine came out. A borescoping showed nothing. Although the lifters were proven to be bad, I felt it was false economy to put that much into it at 60K knowing these engines have multiple weak points. Turned out to be a lucky call. New engine is RND with Nickies, plus I added the IMS Solution to be done with that issue permanently.
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Old 10-10-2016, 08:24 PM
  #45  
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2009 997.2, 911S, 37K miles, no problems
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