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I think this is a symptom of a failing pressure plate. I've had random spurts of really hard clutch pedal action - more effort than even my '92 Talon with a 2400 lb pressure plate.
What really grinds my gears (no pun intended), is that there are supposed to be only 20k miles on this clutch. I have no idea how the previous owner drove the car, but it's pretty frustrating.
I've heard that these Sachs clutches seem to fail pretty regularly. My fathers Z3M needs a new clutch at 29,000 miles.
Kev! Crap. Sorry to hear about this. At least it wasn't the clutch or flywheel like we talked about. Did you already order the part and are you DIYing?
How did you find out about the TSB?
Yup. DIY is the only way I can afford the upkeep, lol.
Hopefully a new threaded joint will work (999.230.541.10). I need this clutch to last at least a few more months so I can save up for a clutch, AASCO flywheel and ATI damper (if they make one for our cars).
Reading up on the problem, I hear that I *may* be able to replace just the circlip in the threaded joint (996.423.614.00), which costs a whopping $1.78.
So ... I think I'm gonna order a threaded joint and a dozen circlips for the hell of it.
Ordered the circlips (996.423.614.00) from Napleton Porsche, since they're local to me. Original price of $6.72, PCA member price: $1.53! 77% off!
I was quoted $119.00 for the threaded joint (999.230.541.10), but I will try this and see if it works first. If the line popped out of the joint, then the circlip should be the only part that actually sustained any damage.
Should be here by Thursday, coming in from Atlanta.
I'm thinking I could have bought this same clip from the local hardware store, but we'll see when they come in.
Hm, would be nice to know about the TSBs automatically. If one goes in to the dealer and says: give me all the TSB's ... will they do that? I want to proactively fix known issues, not wait for a failure to happen.
Hm, would be nice to know about the TSBs automatically. If one goes in to the dealer and says: give me all the TSB's ... will they do that? I want to proactively fix known issues, not wait for a failure to happen.
Does your company give away information for free to people off the street?
Does your company give away information for free to people off the street?
Oh come on. If I were a customer, yes I'd expect to know something that affected the quality of my product and could be remedied. TSBs are certainly short of recalls and are used mostly by the service departments for changes in diagnosing problems and for changes in procedure, but it certainly would be considered additional preventative maintenance to address problems TSBs are meant to remedy before they are problems.
Oh come on. If I were a customer, yes I'd expect to know something that affected the quality of my product and could be remedied. TSBs are certainly short of recalls and are used mostly by the service departments for changes in diagnosing problems and for changes in procedure, but it certainly would be considered additional preventative maintenance to address problems TSBs are meant to remedy before they are problems.
I agree, I want them. However, the very existence of a TSB is a way of saying the mfgr didn't do a good job so I get they don't want anyone to know.
The service manager at a Honda dealer once told me the number of TSBs issued by Honda was minuscule compared to a GM dealership he managed. Given the volume of data, I guess I don't blame the industry from being secretive about it. Maybe it can be seen as a legal liability too.
Another story: My wife's Lexus had notchy steering.... I found the TSB for it. I took it to the dealer (didn't say I knew of the TSB), under warranty, and the dealer said since the car was in an accident (it was), I would have to pay an hourly rate for tear down and repair. So I asked him "so because my wife banged the side of the car, I no longer have a warrenty?". He simply re-stated his offer for an hourly rate repair. I called Lexus NA, and dealer then called back in one hour..... replaced the steering rack under warranty.... took three days. TSBs are empowering to owners... another reason why they don't want us to have access to this stuff.
I agree, I want them. However, the very existence of a TSB is a way of saying the mfgr didn't do a good job so I get they don't want anyone to know.
The service manager at a Honda dealer once told me the number of TSBs issued by Honda was minuscule compared to a GM dealership he managed. Given the volume of data, I guess I don't blame the industry from being secretive about it. Maybe it can be seen as a legal liability too.
Another story: My wife's Lexus had notchy steering.... I found the TSB for it. I took it to the dealer (didn't say I knew of the TSB), under warranty, and the dealer said since the car was in an accident (it was), I would have to pay an hourly rate for tear down and repair. So I asked him "so because my wife banged the side of the car, I no longer have a warrenty?". He simply re-stated his offer for an hourly rate repair. I called Lexus NA, and dealer then called back in one hour..... replaced the steering rack under warranty.... took three days. TSBs are empowering to owners... another reason why they don't want us to have access to this stuff.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Begs the question, why haven't we started a TSB sticky for the 997 on RL?
Update: The $1.53 circlips (996.423.614.00) aren't the clips that can be found in the threaded joint. That part number corresponds to the clips for the kind of union the lines to the master cylinder has.
Apparently it's actually "999.230.685.40" for the clip that goes into the threaded joint. S**t. Will call the dealer today and see if they can order that for me.
... Actually their prices are roughly half what the dealer, Pelican Parts, ECS, or any other vendor has so far quoted me. Seems they don't have the clip I need, though.
Since the clips I ordered didn't work, I popped the rubber line to the slave back into the threaded joint to see if it would work. It clipped in with a barely perceptible *click*, and tugging on it didn't seem to loosen it.
I don't want to take any chances (I have two free tows left this year ) with another breakdown and get heckled by kids in Hondas and old guys in Corvettes on the side of the road again (long story), but I'm going to see if the clip will hold by just bleeding the slave and taking it out for local weekend errands by my parents' place. Common sense tells me if it popped out, the clip inside the threaded joint has to be damaged, but we'll see. If the line pops again, I can just flat tow the car back to my parents' garage.
Renntech.org has TSB's for download. You might need to donate a nominal amount to see them though.
Carrera (996) TSBs Total = 238
Carrera (997-1) TSBs Total = 108
Carrera (997-2) TSBs Total = 25
Carrera (991) TSBs Total = 2
GT3 (996) TSBs Total = 14
GT3 (997) TSBs Total = 16
999.230.685.40 has been ordered at at a less reasonable price of $14.76 with PCA discount with Napleton Porsche. Still cheaper than the $65.00 threaded joint, so I'll give this a shot first.
Car's been inop for two weekends now. I hate it when this happens. Simple repair, but you gotta wait for parts to arrive.
I can't imagine what this must have been like ~20 years ago, though.
999.230.685.40 has been ordered at at a less reasonable price of $14.76 with PCA discount with Napleton Porsche. Still cheaper than the $65.00 threaded joint, so I'll give this a shot first.
Car's been inop for two weekends now. I hate it when this happens. Simple repair, but you gotta wait for parts to arrive.
I can't imagine what this must have been like ~20 years ago, though.
Nice troubleshooting, Kev. Good paper trail for posterity too.
Well, the car is still down. There's a very good reason for that.
I'll start with the procedure to undo the clutch hydraulic fluid line. You'll need one flare nut wrench to hold the hard line going to the master cylinder. I would have used one on the slave side, but the line gets in the way. The open end of a 15mm combination wrench worked.
The two halves of the joint are held in there TIGHT. I had to double over my 15mm open ended wrench to get the union to undo. It's relatively straightforward from here.
Here's the clutch slave side of the union. I removed the entire clutch slave line so I could examine everything.
This is the $14 clip I ordered. (spoilers: it's the wrong one )
Crappy picture, but looking into the back side of the union, you can see the retaining clip that holds the rubber slave side line to the union inside of the union housing. Straight away, you can tell there's a problem here. There were little chunks inside of it.
The clip just slides out the back side of the union.
Well, look at that. Two of the "fingers" on the retaining clip had broken off, which is probably why the line popped at the union. You can also see in this picture that the clip I ordered just isn't designed for this kind of fitting. The TSB was right - If this union pops on you, you just gotta order a new one.
I tried looking in other parts diagrams for this same style clip, but I could only find the part number for the circlip-style retaining clip, not this "birdcage" style clip.
This is how the clip fits into the union itself and how it keeps the clutch slave line in place.
The clip itself seems to be made of a very soft aluminum. The "fingers" that clip into the groove on the hose break off pretty easily. I don't think these fluid unions are reusable.
999.230.541.10 has been ordered through dC Automotive in NC. I hope to receive it by this weekend so I can throw it in the car.
03-08-2016, 12:41 AM
) with another breakdown and get heckled by kids in Hondas and old guys in Corvettes on the side of the road again (long story), but I'm going to see if the clip will hold by just bleeding the slave and taking it out for local weekend errands by my parents' place. Common sense tells me if it popped out, the clip inside the threaded joint has to be damaged, but we'll see. If the line pops again, I can just flat tow the car back to my parents' garage.
There's a very good reason for that.
