Crazy for considering a non s carrera?
02-26-2016, 04:20 PM
#61
Not exactly true -
- IMS - in '05, which is really the only year to worry about unless you're tracking your car, more base model cars received the smaller IMS bearing than S cars. The upside to that is if you have a smaller bearing '05 that hasn't started to fail yet, you can install the IMS Solution and not worry about it again.
- Bore Scoring -this may be more prevalent in the 3.8 than the 3.6 but really is much more prominent in cars that are driven in cold weather where the different metals in the engine warm and expand at different rates during warm-up. Also, people in these climates sometimes start their cars and leave them idling so they're warm when they get in. That causes 2 problems, first the fuel enrichment routing that's based off coolant temperature is injecting more fuel into the engine and this can cause cylinder wall washing which means it's removing the protective oil coating by the fuel washing it away. Second, the highest load on the IMS bearing is when the car is at idle. When you start the car, drive off and let it warm as you drive
- Water Pump - I believe both cars use the same pump. Water pump failure is related to time in service more than mileage. The impeller and the bearing are sitting in coolant all the time, whether the car is being driven or not. That's why some pumps in less frequently driven cars are failing at low mileage, like 30-40k, whereas others used as DD are lasting until the 80k mile range and above - both are failing at roughly the same time interval - it's the mileage that's different. It should be preemptively changed every 3-4 years regardless of mileage.
02-26-2016, 04:22 PM
#62
02-26-2016, 04:22 PM
#63
Burning Brakes
edit... 997.2 rotors for S and non S cars are the same size (unlike the 997.1 where the S rotors are larger than the base) but the calipers and pads are still different.
Last edited by Blu311; 02-29-2016 at 12:09 PM.
02-26-2016, 04:29 PM
#64
Burning Brakes
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02-26-2016, 07:17 PM
#65
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I have a base 997.1 and am happy. I won't argue that the S is a better car, but mine goes, corners and stops more than well enough for me. Had I found a good, clean S in my price range before I bought mine, then I would be arguably just as happy, albeit with slightly fewer $ for other things I enjoy.
On the upside, I prefer the simple "Carrera" badge on the rear - on some models the badging is too busy for my liking. More is not always better.
On the upside, I prefer the simple "Carrera" badge on the rear - on some models the badging is too busy for my liking. More is not always better.
02-27-2016, 01:08 AM
#66
Rennlist Member
I've had a Targa 4 997.2 (3.6) and now have a C4S (3.8). The 3.8 is a bit faster but not by much. The 3.6 has a better intake sound (I don't know why, but it does). One of the sales guys originally told me that also before I bought either car and thought it was BS until I've had both.
The 3.6 motor (at least in 997.2 guise) is more than quick enough. I think the 997.1 non-S cars are an amazing deal and really underrated because everyone naturally wants the 'S'. Do it!
The 3.6 motor (at least in 997.2 guise) is more than quick enough. I think the 997.1 non-S cars are an amazing deal and really underrated because everyone naturally wants the 'S'. Do it!
02-27-2016, 02:09 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
I ended up with a 997.1s. That's all I really looked at, but if I were honest with myself, I wonder if I would have been just as happy with a Base. In other words, if I never looked at the badge or wheels or brakes, if I would really be unhappy with a Base?
I am not sure I would have noticed a difference. The 0-60 and 1/4 times (I know, mag racing is lame) for the 997.1 base, S, 997.2 base and S are all extremely close. I have no idea how you can see times for a base 325hp at 4.1 0-60, and at the Same time see times of 3.9 in the 385hp 997.2s. That is extremely close for 60hp difference. The 1/4 is farily close as well, but the trap speed shows a bigger difference but for daily driving or even a tight track I am not sure (assuming budget is an issue) paying $10-20k more for a 997.2S vs a 997.1 base is really worth it.
Personally, I switched out the wheels in my S, will put Eibachs on it so that already changes the 18" base wheels and the 4x4 stance. From there brakes and HP are the big difference, but as I mentioned, is the HP really that big of a deal? To some it is.
I just re watched a test by Franchitti the younger where he tested the m4 vs the 991 and the 991 smoked the m4 on the track. It wasn't til much later and watching it again that I realized this was a 991 base!!! Not even the S. I know it was a 991, but this tells me that Porsche even cares about it's "base" level cars and they aren't to be taken lightly.
I am not sure I would have noticed a difference. The 0-60 and 1/4 times (I know, mag racing is lame) for the 997.1 base, S, 997.2 base and S are all extremely close. I have no idea how you can see times for a base 325hp at 4.1 0-60, and at the Same time see times of 3.9 in the 385hp 997.2s. That is extremely close for 60hp difference. The 1/4 is farily close as well, but the trap speed shows a bigger difference but for daily driving or even a tight track I am not sure (assuming budget is an issue) paying $10-20k more for a 997.2S vs a 997.1 base is really worth it.
Personally, I switched out the wheels in my S, will put Eibachs on it so that already changes the 18" base wheels and the 4x4 stance. From there brakes and HP are the big difference, but as I mentioned, is the HP really that big of a deal? To some it is.
I just re watched a test by Franchitti the younger where he tested the m4 vs the 991 and the 991 smoked the m4 on the track. It wasn't til much later and watching it again that I realized this was a 991 base!!! Not even the S. I know it was a 991, but this tells me that Porsche even cares about it's "base" level cars and they aren't to be taken lightly.
02-27-2016, 11:56 AM
#68
Wow. Thanks for all the replies to my OP.
I've decided I'm going with a C2S over the base carrera. Difference is 46k vs 53k. I think the C2S is worth it for resale alone. private seller has it priced out of the market currently at 58K. They are trying to recoup all the factory accessories and wrap, etc. It's an non sport chrono M6 trans and i do 90% highway driving and i have no worries rowing gears in bumper to bumper city traffic.
Another thing I've noticed in my searching--> 2012 991's are going for 60-64k which now has me pondering a cpo from a dealer.
I've decided I'm going with a C2S over the base carrera. Difference is 46k vs 53k. I think the C2S is worth it for resale alone. private seller has it priced out of the market currently at 58K. They are trying to recoup all the factory accessories and wrap, etc. It's an non sport chrono M6 trans and i do 90% highway driving and i have no worries rowing gears in bumper to bumper city traffic.
Another thing I've noticed in my searching--> 2012 991's are going for 60-64k which now has me pondering a cpo from a dealer.
02-27-2016, 12:09 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
Lol. It's a slippery slop. Before you know it your going to talk yourself into a 991 gt3.
Wow. Thanks for all the replies to my OP.
I've decided I'm going with a C2S over the base carrera. Difference is 46k vs 53k. I think the C2S is worth it for resale alone. private seller has it priced out of the market currently at 58K. They are trying to recoup all the factory accessories and wrap, etc. It's an non sport chrono M6 trans and i do 90% highway driving and i have no worries rowing gears in bumper to bumper city traffic.
Another thing I've noticed in my searching--> 2012 991's are going for 60-64k which now has me pondering a cpo from a dealer.
I've decided I'm going with a C2S over the base carrera. Difference is 46k vs 53k. I think the C2S is worth it for resale alone. private seller has it priced out of the market currently at 58K. They are trying to recoup all the factory accessories and wrap, etc. It's an non sport chrono M6 trans and i do 90% highway driving and i have no worries rowing gears in bumper to bumper city traffic.
Another thing I've noticed in my searching--> 2012 991's are going for 60-64k which now has me pondering a cpo from a dealer.
02-27-2016, 01:36 PM
#70
02-27-2016, 01:52 PM
#71
Oh, and it is a slippery slope. But if you are going to go in the mid 60's get a 997 turbo.
02-27-2016, 02:09 PM
#72
Burning Brakes
02-27-2016, 05:20 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
One of my favorite cars I ever owned was a SA Miata with a 1.8 engine swap and coilovers. At the time I also had a 450hp 3rd gen RX-7 which was great for showing up to every Honda fanboy who would try to race me a the stoplight. However, the car that was really fun to drive for a Sunday afternoon of tearing up some back roads was the lowly 1990 Miata.
02-27-2016, 06:11 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
One of my favorite cars I ever owned was a SA Miata with a 1.8 engine swap and coilovers. At the time I also had a 450hp 3rd gen RX-7 which was great for showing up to every Honda fanboy who would try to race me a the stoplight. However, the car that was really fun to drive for a Sunday afternoon of tearing up some back roads was the lowly 1990 Miata.
Just get an S2000, boxster/caymen and at least have "fun driving the canyon" while not getting smoked by a minivan off the line.
02-27-2016, 06:17 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
A couple other points. Remember, there is always a bigger tool in someone else's shed driving a Miata and a 450 hp rx7 and making fun of Honda fan boys is a bit ironic. It's kind of like Chevy people making fun of fords. In the end, they are all the same people just picked different sides to be wrong about.
Oh, for the record. Much rather have an s2000 than a Miata and much rather have an NSX than the POS rotary in the rx7, not matter how much HP.
Honda>Mazda
Oh, for the record. Much rather have an s2000 than a Miata and much rather have an NSX than the POS rotary in the rx7, not matter how much HP.
Honda>Mazda
One of my favorite cars I ever owned was a SA Miata with a 1.8 engine swap and coilovers. At the time I also had a 450hp 3rd gen RX-7 which was great for showing up to every Honda fanboy who would try to race me a the stoplight. However, the car that was really fun to drive for a Sunday afternoon of tearing up some back roads was the lowly 1990 Miata.