gcurnew

Another 997.2 DD in Calgary! I'm going into winter #3 with my '11 GTS, and don't give the cold and snow much thought. The car is in a garage that is generally unheated (below -25 I sometimes use a space heater to keep temperatures above -10). I start the car, let it come off the fast idle (takes about 20 seconds) then drive slowly for the first couple of km, keeping the car under 3500 RPM. It takes a good 10 minutes to get the oil temp above 70 degrees Celsius, then I'll drive it "normally," which means lots more revs.

I'm running Dunlop Winter Sport M3s, which are on their last winter. When new, the tires were relatively quiet, provided a good mix of snow/ice capability and dry road handling, and gave the 911 an enjoyable, lively feel. Now that they're under 6/32nds of tread depth, they're noisy unpleasant shadows of their former selves. We have a set of Sottozero lls on our Cayman S, and while they give up a bit of snow and ice capability to the M3s, at around 7-8 32nds they are still pretty quiet.

The Cayman was also a 365 DD for my wife for the past 3 years; this winter we tucked it away (back on the road in April) and picked up a MB GLA 250 4MATIC to do winter and Home Depot duties. We put Sottozero 3s on the GLA and are so far very pleased with them...lots of snow/ice traction and a little quieter and more compliant ride than either the M3s or the Sottozero lls.

Deerfield

Thanks for the replies.


Yes - I know wind chill only affects skin temperature and not inanimate objects - I was just trying to describe the overall drop in temperature this morning (actual air temperature was a balmy 17).


I always wait until the revs level out (30 sec - 1 min) anyway so will continue to do that regardless. Garage is not totally enclosed but has walls so wind not an issue.


I assume the creaking is the metal expanding, etc. as well the turning noise when cold - emanates from the rubber joints when turning sharply - I believe I read here?

scottiemac

I've seen a number of 996's and 997's over the past few days so the DD movement is alive and well. My previous Porsche was a 996 cab that I put away for the winter - with this one I figured why not just drive it.
In the morning I do let it come off fast idle but it has usually done that by the time I've rolled back out of my driveway. I have a Yukon XL for the heavy lifting and really bad days.

BIG smoke

Your summer tires don't work in the cold.
O/P I hope you have winter tires.
Me? I start my car, clear the windows. Don't drive until I can see out.
Hurt the engine? I'm more worries about getting T boned by some other cidiot.

scottiemac

Hey - don't you know you're supposed to keep your gas tank above half full in the winter!

motopix

Yeah you might get gas tank scoring.

Philster

I'm not wanting to split hairs here, but we'd need to determine the exact am't of time it takes for internals to fit nicely to precisely determine whether 1 minute is enough or a few minutes are enough, and at what ambient temperature, oil viscosity, etc.

The point is that driving off immediately or at 10 seconds is a little too soon.

We'll acknowledge that you should give it a minute or so and not 'get on it' until things have warmed up, wherein 'get on it' can be set by RPM or, and maybe more importantly, the am't of load (accel/pulling) stress at low RPM is acceptable, which is where any slapping is going to occur (from reading Raby and others intensely).

.

dasams

While it's true that idling returns exactly zero mpg, I think the real reason is to get the catalytic converters up to temp as soon as possible to minimize NOx and unburned HC emissions.

chuck911

Some of the best info I've seen on cold weather starting is from Jake Raby, but it is peppered around in this thread https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...s-problem.html and even that thread has a link to another one with more info. Don't even remember any more which one had the most info on this.

Cliff Notes: the problem with cold starting is pistons heat up and expand so much faster than cylinders it can sometimes lead to serious damage in a short time in some cars. Pistons being small, poorly cooled and directly heated by ignition will of course heat up faster than anything else. I think Jake says in there somewhere he's seen badly scored cylinders on cars with lots of cold starts in as little as 12,000 miles. But this isn't common to all, it depends on the materials used and the tolerances designed in. Anyway, key point, this all happens within the first few seconds.

Conclusion: let idle the first few seconds.

jsalah

At MINUS 22, I'd be afraid my eyelids will freeze shut if I so much as look at the car. Forget driving it!
(EDIT - I just realized you were Celsius)

malahhaor

Manufacturers state not to idle the car because of emissions and gas mileage.
I personally don't see how its ok to drive a cold engine were parts haven't warmed up and don't quite fit properly.
Sure, if you take off it will warm up faster but it also puts more load on engine parts that don't fit properly. I'd rather have them idle until they are a tad warmer before i put load on it.
I always wait a min or two after idle goes to normal before i drive off. But that's me.
This is were i miss my S550 that had a remote start. Getting in to Carrera at 5am where windows are frozen shut and don't go down when you try to open or close the car, sux.

Quadcammer

considering how many people hop into a ice cold car and go WOT out of my train station parking lot, as well as people who let their car idle for 30 minutes to warm it up, I'm guessing this is generally a moot point.

i think the sum of all this is a pretty well-agreed upon principle.

Let idle for 1 to 3 minutes, drive at light load with RPMs under 3500rpm or so until oil gets warm.

Seem pretty straight forward.

3Series

I just start the car and drive off when I'M ready. Screw the car, my hands and body need to be settled.

On the wife's car, we remote start the hell out of it whenever possible. Its a world of a difference to enter a toasty car with a toasty steering wheel.

I wish my 911 had a heated steering wheel. I would probably prefer that over heated seats. Cooled seats are junk in my opinion, although I turn them on when tracking the car when it's hot outside. Poor mans version of a Cool suit system. I don't think it really does much.

dasams

If you were tracking on a cold winter day with the windows down, you'd prefer the heated seats

997_Toronto

Agree 100%