Damn its cold outside -
#16
Rennlist Member
Cold! You guys don't know cold!
I got my '09 C2 in October and it's my daily driver. I have Sottozero Series 2 winter tires on it. The worst day was after a 4 - 6 inch snowfall but still only had an issue on one hill.
I keep the car in my garage (un-heated) and don't really warm it up before driving away. I short shift to keep the max revs between 2500 and 3000 until I start to build up some heat in the engine. My morning drive is in the 15 minute range and the oil temp is usually up to normal by the time I get to work.
So far it has been great. Some of my early cars were Beetles from the early 60's - this is just like a Beetle with 10 times the horsepower.
Cheers, Scott
I got my '09 C2 in October and it's my daily driver. I have Sottozero Series 2 winter tires on it. The worst day was after a 4 - 6 inch snowfall but still only had an issue on one hill.
I keep the car in my garage (un-heated) and don't really warm it up before driving away. I short shift to keep the max revs between 2500 and 3000 until I start to build up some heat in the engine. My morning drive is in the 15 minute range and the oil temp is usually up to normal by the time I get to work.
So far it has been great. Some of my early cars were Beetles from the early 60's - this is just like a Beetle with 10 times the horsepower.
Cheers, Scott
I'm running Dunlop Winter Sport M3s, which are on their last winter. When new, the tires were relatively quiet, provided a good mix of snow/ice capability and dry road handling, and gave the 911 an enjoyable, lively feel. Now that they're under 6/32nds of tread depth, they're noisy unpleasant shadows of their former selves. We have a set of Sottozero lls on our Cayman S, and while they give up a bit of snow and ice capability to the M3s, at around 7-8 32nds they are still pretty quiet.
The Cayman was also a 365 DD for my wife for the past 3 years; this winter we tucked it away (back on the road in April) and picked up a MB GLA 250 4MATIC to do winter and Home Depot duties. We put Sottozero 3s on the GLA and are so far very pleased with them...lots of snow/ice traction and a little quieter and more compliant ride than either the M3s or the Sottozero lls.
#17
Advanced
Thread Starter
You're right - wind chill is meaningless to engine operation. I think the OP was referring to his parking situation. Parking the car outdoors in cold temps isn't ideal, obviously. I've read that if you must leave the car outside, park it so it is blocked from any wind (against a fence, building, etc).
As soon as you shut down the engine it is shedding heat until morning when you go to start it. In a cold and breezy area the wind is helping to carry away any residual heat that much faster.
It may sound insignificant but I read that in a book about making your car and engine last way longer than your average car.
As soon as you shut down the engine it is shedding heat until morning when you go to start it. In a cold and breezy area the wind is helping to carry away any residual heat that much faster.
It may sound insignificant but I read that in a book about making your car and engine last way longer than your average car.
Yes - I know wind chill only affects skin temperature and not inanimate objects - I was just trying to describe the overall drop in temperature this morning (actual air temperature was a balmy 17).
I always wait until the revs level out (30 sec - 1 min) anyway so will continue to do that regardless. Garage is not totally enclosed but has walls so wind not an issue.
I assume the creaking is the metal expanding, etc. as well the turning noise when cold - emanates from the rubber joints when turning sharply - I believe I read here?
#18
Another 997.2 DD in Calgary! I'm going into winter #3 with my '11 GTS, and don't give the cold and snow much thought. The car is in a garage that is generally unheated (below -25 I sometimes use a space heater to keep temperatures above -10). I start the car, let it come off the fast idle (takes about 20 seconds) then drive slowly for the first couple of km, keeping the car under 3500 RPM. It takes a good 10 minutes to get the oil temp above 70 degrees Celsius, then I'll drive it "normally," which means lots more revs.
I'm running Dunlop Winter Sport M3s, which are on their last winter. When new, the tires were relatively quiet, provided a good mix of snow/ice capability and dry road handling, and gave the 911 an enjoyable, lively feel. Now that they're under 6/32nds of tread depth, they're noisy unpleasant shadows of their former selves. We have a set of Sottozero lls on our Cayman S, and while they give up a bit of snow and ice capability to the M3s, at around 7-8 32nds they are still pretty quiet.
The Cayman was also a 365 DD for my wife for the past 3 years; this winter we tucked it away (back on the road in April) and picked up a MB GLA 250 4MATIC to do winter and Home Depot duties. We put Sottozero 3s on the GLA and are so far very pleased with them...lots of snow/ice traction and a little quieter and more compliant ride than either the M3s or the Sottozero lls.
I'm running Dunlop Winter Sport M3s, which are on their last winter. When new, the tires were relatively quiet, provided a good mix of snow/ice capability and dry road handling, and gave the 911 an enjoyable, lively feel. Now that they're under 6/32nds of tread depth, they're noisy unpleasant shadows of their former selves. We have a set of Sottozero lls on our Cayman S, and while they give up a bit of snow and ice capability to the M3s, at around 7-8 32nds they are still pretty quiet.
The Cayman was also a 365 DD for my wife for the past 3 years; this winter we tucked it away (back on the road in April) and picked up a MB GLA 250 4MATIC to do winter and Home Depot duties. We put Sottozero 3s on the GLA and are so far very pleased with them...lots of snow/ice traction and a little quieter and more compliant ride than either the M3s or the Sottozero lls.
In the morning I do let it come off fast idle but it has usually done that by the time I've rolled back out of my driveway. I have a Yukon XL for the heavy lifting and really bad days.
#19
Drifting
Your summer tires don't work in the cold.
O/P I hope you have winter tires.
Me? I start my car, clear the windows. Don't drive until I can see out.
Hurt the engine? I'm more worries about getting T boned by some other cidiot.
O/P I hope you have winter tires.
Me? I start my car, clear the windows. Don't drive until I can see out.
Hurt the engine? I'm more worries about getting T boned by some other cidiot.
#20
Hey - don't you know you're supposed to keep your gas tank above half full in the winter!
#22
Three Wheelin'
The point is that driving off immediately or at 10 seconds is a little too soon.
We'll acknowledge that you should give it a minute or so and not 'get on it' until things have warmed up, wherein 'get on it' can be set by RPM or, and maybe more importantly, the am't of load (accel/pulling) stress at low RPM is acceptable, which is where any slapping is going to occur (from reading Raby and others intensely).
.
#23
Rennlist Member
While it's true that idling returns exactly zero mpg, I think the real reason is to get the catalytic converters up to temp as soon as possible to minimize NOx and unburned HC emissions.
#24
Some of the best info I've seen on cold weather starting is from Jake Raby, but it is peppered around in this thread https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...s-problem.html and even that thread has a link to another one with more info. Don't even remember any more which one had the most info on this.
Cliff Notes: the problem with cold starting is pistons heat up and expand so much faster than cylinders it can sometimes lead to serious damage in a short time in some cars. Pistons being small, poorly cooled and directly heated by ignition will of course heat up faster than anything else. I think Jake says in there somewhere he's seen badly scored cylinders on cars with lots of cold starts in as little as 12,000 miles. But this isn't common to all, it depends on the materials used and the tolerances designed in. Anyway, key point, this all happens within the first few seconds.
Conclusion: let idle the first few seconds.
Cliff Notes: the problem with cold starting is pistons heat up and expand so much faster than cylinders it can sometimes lead to serious damage in a short time in some cars. Pistons being small, poorly cooled and directly heated by ignition will of course heat up faster than anything else. I think Jake says in there somewhere he's seen badly scored cylinders on cars with lots of cold starts in as little as 12,000 miles. But this isn't common to all, it depends on the materials used and the tolerances designed in. Anyway, key point, this all happens within the first few seconds.
Conclusion: let idle the first few seconds.
#26
Rennlist Member
Manufacturers state not to idle the car because of emissions and gas mileage.
I personally don't see how its ok to drive a cold engine were parts haven't warmed up and don't quite fit properly.
Sure, if you take off it will warm up faster but it also puts more load on engine parts that don't fit properly. I'd rather have them idle until they are a tad warmer before i put load on it.
I always wait a min or two after idle goes to normal before i drive off. But that's me.
This is were i miss my S550 that had a remote start. Getting in to Carrera at 5am where windows are frozen shut and don't go down when you try to open or close the car, sux.
I personally don't see how its ok to drive a cold engine were parts haven't warmed up and don't quite fit properly.
Sure, if you take off it will warm up faster but it also puts more load on engine parts that don't fit properly. I'd rather have them idle until they are a tad warmer before i put load on it.
I always wait a min or two after idle goes to normal before i drive off. But that's me.
This is were i miss my S550 that had a remote start. Getting in to Carrera at 5am where windows are frozen shut and don't go down when you try to open or close the car, sux.
#27
Race Director
Manufacturers state not to idle the car because of emissions and gas mileage.
I personally don't see how its ok to drive a cold engine were parts haven't warmed up and don't quite fit properly.
Sure, if you take off it will warm up faster but it also puts more load on engine parts that don't fit properly. I'd rather have them idle until they are a tad warmer before i put load on it.
I always wait a min or two after idle goes to normal before i drive off. But that's me.
This is were i miss my S550 that had a remote start. Getting in to Carrera at 5am where windows are frozen shut and don't go down when you try to open or close the car, sux.
I personally don't see how its ok to drive a cold engine were parts haven't warmed up and don't quite fit properly.
Sure, if you take off it will warm up faster but it also puts more load on engine parts that don't fit properly. I'd rather have them idle until they are a tad warmer before i put load on it.
I always wait a min or two after idle goes to normal before i drive off. But that's me.
This is were i miss my S550 that had a remote start. Getting in to Carrera at 5am where windows are frozen shut and don't go down when you try to open or close the car, sux.
i think the sum of all this is a pretty well-agreed upon principle.
Let idle for 1 to 3 minutes, drive at light load with RPMs under 3500rpm or so until oil gets warm.
Seem pretty straight forward.
#28
Three Wheelin'
I just start the car and drive off when I'M ready. Screw the car, my hands and body need to be settled.
On the wife's car, we remote start the hell out of it whenever possible. Its a world of a difference to enter a toasty car with a toasty steering wheel.
I wish my 911 had a heated steering wheel. I would probably prefer that over heated seats. Cooled seats are junk in my opinion, although I turn them on when tracking the car when it's hot outside. Poor mans version of a Cool suit system. I don't think it really does much.
On the wife's car, we remote start the hell out of it whenever possible. Its a world of a difference to enter a toasty car with a toasty steering wheel.
I wish my 911 had a heated steering wheel. I would probably prefer that over heated seats. Cooled seats are junk in my opinion, although I turn them on when tracking the car when it's hot outside. Poor mans version of a Cool suit system. I don't think it really does much.
#29
Rennlist Member
If you were tracking on a cold winter day with the windows down, you'd prefer the heated seats
#30
Three Wheelin'
Agree 100%