MT Transmission gritty shifting woes
11-12-2015, 04:13 AM
#1
MT Transmission gritty shifting woes
Hello all,
I have an 6MT '11 997.2 TT with 25K miles but posting here since there is more foot traffic.
I have been dealing with a slowly worsening transmission issue. I think what best describes the problem is "gritty shifting".
I bought the car mainly to enjoy MT in supercar clothes, but this issue spoils the fun constantly. I am really hoping someone can help solve my problem!
It started about 2 months ago, seemingly with the lowered temps outside. The 1-2 shift would feel gritty/notchy. At times, I wasn't sure if the gear was fully engaged. I went to Porsche of Bellevue, where I had the mechanic do a test drive and the car was great. No issues, although the car was fully warmed up.
The problem continued. One day, I got a weird pop out of 2nd when I released the clutch pedal and thought 2nd was all the way in. There was a bit of grind (less than 1s with light gas to 2K RPM, at ~20MPH)
Next, I replaced the transmission oil with RedLine MT75w90 about 3 weeks ago. The shifting action now feels lighter/crisper- more bolt-action like, but the grittiness of 2nd is still there. I can now feel the engagement better in all gears, which makes the grittiness more pronounced... only 2nd feels unsure though.
Yesterday, my 2nd gear shift didn't go all the way in and it popped out again into N when I gave a bit of gas. I was moving with about 13-14mph at the time. No grind this time.
I have a Numeric shifter & Numeric cables ready to go in, along with stiffer transmission mounts, but I'm now wondering if there is some mechanical issue going on in the transmission. One thing I thought of trying was driving another 997.1/.2 to see how it feels.
A few other points:
* The shifting action is never problematic on downshift
* Shifting with car off, at idle, or at speed (say 60mph) all through 2nd-6th gear is very decent. A bit of a gritty feel in 2nd once in a while, but not much. Definitely no "unsure" feeling
* It feels better (but still gritty) when warmed up.
* Clutch engagement is a bit above middle, and feels good. I tried the clutch test (rev to 6K rpm with clutch depressed and 1st gear engaged) and car didn't creep at all. Also I can floor the gas at any gear and the car pulls like a dog. No clutch slippage at all.
* The car came with the regular shifter (not the factory SSK)
* The mechanic who drove the car suggested that it may get fixed if they replace the cables (not covered since they aren't broken). I decided to get the numeric cables instead and install myself
Does this sound normal to you all? Do you have any opinions/ideas/suggestions?
I'd greatly appreciate any input!
thanks for reading!
I have an 6MT '11 997.2 TT with 25K miles but posting here since there is more foot traffic.
I have been dealing with a slowly worsening transmission issue. I think what best describes the problem is "gritty shifting".
I bought the car mainly to enjoy MT in supercar clothes, but this issue spoils the fun constantly. I am really hoping someone can help solve my problem!
It started about 2 months ago, seemingly with the lowered temps outside. The 1-2 shift would feel gritty/notchy. At times, I wasn't sure if the gear was fully engaged. I went to Porsche of Bellevue, where I had the mechanic do a test drive and the car was great. No issues, although the car was fully warmed up.
The problem continued. One day, I got a weird pop out of 2nd when I released the clutch pedal and thought 2nd was all the way in. There was a bit of grind (less than 1s with light gas to 2K RPM, at ~20MPH)
Next, I replaced the transmission oil with RedLine MT75w90 about 3 weeks ago. The shifting action now feels lighter/crisper- more bolt-action like, but the grittiness of 2nd is still there. I can now feel the engagement better in all gears, which makes the grittiness more pronounced... only 2nd feels unsure though.
Yesterday, my 2nd gear shift didn't go all the way in and it popped out again into N when I gave a bit of gas. I was moving with about 13-14mph at the time. No grind this time.
I have a Numeric shifter & Numeric cables ready to go in, along with stiffer transmission mounts, but I'm now wondering if there is some mechanical issue going on in the transmission. One thing I thought of trying was driving another 997.1/.2 to see how it feels.
A few other points:
* The shifting action is never problematic on downshift
* Shifting with car off, at idle, or at speed (say 60mph) all through 2nd-6th gear is very decent. A bit of a gritty feel in 2nd once in a while, but not much. Definitely no "unsure" feeling
* It feels better (but still gritty) when warmed up.
* Clutch engagement is a bit above middle, and feels good. I tried the clutch test (rev to 6K rpm with clutch depressed and 1st gear engaged) and car didn't creep at all. Also I can floor the gas at any gear and the car pulls like a dog. No clutch slippage at all.
* The car came with the regular shifter (not the factory SSK)
* The mechanic who drove the car suggested that it may get fixed if they replace the cables (not covered since they aren't broken). I decided to get the numeric cables instead and install myself
Does this sound normal to you all? Do you have any opinions/ideas/suggestions?
I'd greatly appreciate any input!
thanks for reading!
Last edited by caslca; 11-12-2015 at 02:10 PM. Reason: incomplete post
11-12-2015, 04:54 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
The 1 to 2 shift is always notch when cold. It has something to do with steel syncros. It shouldn't pop out though. Hopefully it's just a cable adjustment. In that case you might as well have the numeric & cables installed since I think you have to remove the console to adjust the cables. If that doesn't fix it then it might be time for a rebuild?
11-12-2015, 05:04 AM
#4
The 1 to 2 shift is always notch when cold. It has something to do with steel syncros. It shouldn't pop out though. Hopefully it's just a cable adjustment. In that case you might as well have the numeric & cables installed since I think you have to remove the console to adjust the cables. If that doesn't fix it then it might be time for a rebuild?
11-12-2015, 08:12 AM
#5
Former Vendor
I am not an expert but have heard of the 2nd gear pop out. I also had an early 911 with all sorts of shifting issues. I don't believe yours is transmission related. You did a great thing by changing the gear box oil. Changing the transmission mounts, cables, and shifter will most likely sort out the problem as you are eliminating a lot of variables.
Do you have a factory short shift kit on?
I also think it wouldn't hurt to make a few calls or send some emails to performance experts that are forum sponsors. Unfortunately dealers seem to know less and less these days! I'm optimistic for your problem.
Do you have a factory short shift kit on?
I also think it wouldn't hurt to make a few calls or send some emails to performance experts that are forum sponsors. Unfortunately dealers seem to know less and less these days! I'm optimistic for your problem.
11-12-2015, 10:05 AM
#6
Race Car
I'm leaning towards bad synchros. I think it's rare for this to happen in the 997 geaerbox. I would have an expert look at it and start discussing options. If you're still having issues with grind after changing out the gear oil I would have it looked at.
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11-12-2015, 10:22 AM
#8
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
2009 C2S
Contact these guys here for this exact issue:
http://www.gboxweb.com/detent.html
If the guys at Gbox don't address your issue directly, FWIW, I had a 2000 Boxster S that had a really weird 2nd gear (a 911 transmission) right off the showroom floor. When cold, particularly in the winter, it would pop out of 2nd gear if I was not careful. Putting it in 2nd was a two-click affair... I don't know what was happening, but IIRC, the dog teeth have a bump on them to keep them locked. If you didn't seat the tooth deep enough, it would pop out of gear.
Also, FWIW, 2nd gear is always a big crunchy in these transmissions. When I drop into 2nd, it always feels like there is a bit too much going on in there.
Post your results here when you discover it.
One more item: "adjusting" the shift cables will do nothing. The adjustments in the cable ends, at the shifter, are to move the relative position of the shift leaver only, it has no effect on shifting. The clicking, springing, holding the shifter in a gear etc, is all done inside the transmission and not in the shifter or cables. There is however an issue with the shift linkage at the transmission side where it can get worn and sloppy, but that is only with really high mileage cars.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Contact these guys here for this exact issue:
http://www.gboxweb.com/detent.html
If the guys at Gbox don't address your issue directly, FWIW, I had a 2000 Boxster S that had a really weird 2nd gear (a 911 transmission) right off the showroom floor. When cold, particularly in the winter, it would pop out of 2nd gear if I was not careful. Putting it in 2nd was a two-click affair... I don't know what was happening, but IIRC, the dog teeth have a bump on them to keep them locked. If you didn't seat the tooth deep enough, it would pop out of gear.
Also, FWIW, 2nd gear is always a big crunchy in these transmissions. When I drop into 2nd, it always feels like there is a bit too much going on in there.
Post your results here when you discover it.
One more item: "adjusting" the shift cables will do nothing. The adjustments in the cable ends, at the shifter, are to move the relative position of the shift leaver only, it has no effect on shifting. The clicking, springing, holding the shifter in a gear etc, is all done inside the transmission and not in the shifter or cables. There is however an issue with the shift linkage at the transmission side where it can get worn and sloppy, but that is only with really high mileage cars.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
11-12-2015, 01:58 PM
#9
I am not an expert but have heard of the 2nd gear pop out. I also had an early 911 with all sorts of shifting issues. I don't believe yours is transmission related. You did a great thing by changing the gear box oil. Changing the transmission mounts, cables, and shifter will most likely sort out the problem as you are eliminating a lot of variables.
Do you have a factory short shift kit on?
I also think it wouldn't hurt to make a few calls or send some emails to performance experts that are forum sponsors. Unfortunately dealers seem to know less and less these days! I'm optimistic for your problem.
Do you have a factory short shift kit on?
I also think it wouldn't hurt to make a few calls or send some emails to performance experts that are forum sponsors. Unfortunately dealers seem to know less and less these days! I'm optimistic for your problem.
11-12-2015, 02:07 PM
#10
2009 C2S
Contact these guys here for this exact issue:
http://www.gboxweb.com/detent.html
If the guys at Gbox don't address your issue directly, FWIW, I had a 2000 Boxster S that had a really weird 2nd gear (a 911 transmission) right off the showroom floor. When cold, particularly in the winter, it would pop out of 2nd gear if I was not careful. Putting it in 2nd was a two-click affair... I don't know what was happening, but IIRC, the dog teeth have a bump on them to keep them locked. If you didn't seat the tooth deep enough, it would pop out of gear.
Also, FWIW, 2nd gear is always a big crunchy in these transmissions. When I drop into 2nd, it always feels like there is a bit too much going on in there.
Post your results here when you discover it.
One more item: "adjusting" the shift cables will do nothing. The adjustments in the cable ends, at the shifter, are to move the relative position of the shift leaver only, it has no effect on shifting. The clicking, springing, holding the shifter in a gear etc, is all done inside the transmission and not in the shifter or cables. There is however an issue with the shift linkage at the transmission side where it can get worn and sloppy, but that is only with really high mileage cars.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Contact these guys here for this exact issue:
http://www.gboxweb.com/detent.html
If the guys at Gbox don't address your issue directly, FWIW, I had a 2000 Boxster S that had a really weird 2nd gear (a 911 transmission) right off the showroom floor. When cold, particularly in the winter, it would pop out of 2nd gear if I was not careful. Putting it in 2nd was a two-click affair... I don't know what was happening, but IIRC, the dog teeth have a bump on them to keep them locked. If you didn't seat the tooth deep enough, it would pop out of gear.
Also, FWIW, 2nd gear is always a big crunchy in these transmissions. When I drop into 2nd, it always feels like there is a bit too much going on in there.
Post your results here when you discover it.
One more item: "adjusting" the shift cables will do nothing. The adjustments in the cable ends, at the shifter, are to move the relative position of the shift leaver only, it has no effect on shifting. The clicking, springing, holding the shifter in a gear etc, is all done inside the transmission and not in the shifter or cables. There is however an issue with the shift linkage at the transmission side where it can get worn and sloppy, but that is only with really high mileage cars.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
11-12-2015, 02:19 PM
#11
Dealer insists this is "normal" though. Sadly, it seems this is their answer for everything these days... I was thinking of asking them to keep the car overnight so that they can try it cold in the morning.
11-12-2015, 02:47 PM
#12
Drifting
Who replaced the tranny oil? You or the dealer?
Does the dealer commend Redline? Are there any additives also added at refill time?
Would they point at Redline as it not made in the Black forest, and blame your choice of fluids on the issue?
Does the dealer commend Redline? Are there any additives also added at refill time?
Would they point at Redline as it not made in the Black forest, and blame your choice of fluids on the issue?
11-12-2015, 02:50 PM
#13
- Don't know if they recommend it.
- No additives were added.
- Probably. They did seem reasonable enough so I'm hopeful they won't make an issue of it.
11-12-2015, 03:02 PM
#14
Absolutely do a night drop so they can drive the car "cold" in the morning.
One problem you are dealing with is that the dealer hears a steady stream of complaints about shifter feel. Your situation probably sounds no different to them than any of the others they hear about daily. They get it... people are disappointed with Porsche MT shifter feel.
You mentioned that you were going to drive one of their used cars cold, have you been able to do that?
One problem you are dealing with is that the dealer hears a steady stream of complaints about shifter feel. Your situation probably sounds no different to them than any of the others they hear about daily. They get it... people are disappointed with Porsche MT shifter feel.
You mentioned that you were going to drive one of their used cars cold, have you been able to do that?
11-12-2015, 05:07 PM
#15
Absolutely do a night drop so they can drive the car "cold" in the morning.
One problem you are dealing with is that the dealer hears a steady stream of complaints about shifter feel. Your situation probably sounds no different to them than any of the others they hear about daily. They get it... people are disappointed with Porsche MT shifter feel.
You mentioned that you were going to drive one of their used cars cold, have you been able to do that?
One problem you are dealing with is that the dealer hears a steady stream of complaints about shifter feel. Your situation probably sounds no different to them than any of the others they hear about daily. They get it... people are disappointed with Porsche MT shifter feel.
You mentioned that you were going to drive one of their used cars cold, have you been able to do that?