Ezkill

This is pretty common on every car forum that I'm a member of(Exotic, European and domestic). Blown engines are not unique to Porsche, at all. There are other more expensive marquees that experience catastrophic failures. They still represent a relatively small percentage of owners. How many threads do we see on these forums that are titled "Car just ran another 10k miles and all is well" - Not that many, but that's the reality for most owners.

Flat6 Innovations

Yes. Our first 997.2 engine classes are in April of 2015. Sign up for the newsletter, details will be shared there as soon as we finish all the class scheduling. Probably in a couple of weeks.

We now have 4 years of 997.2 experience and many builds under our belts, so its time to do some classes.

ATLDiver

Since I'm local and interested in basic maintenance myself.

Para82

Jake, a few questions if you get a minute.

1) Are you seeing the 991 engines with any issues in your shop yet?

2) Have you seen a lot of Metzger engines coming in with failures?

3) What is the highest mileage 997 you have seen to date?

Fahrer

Showing pictures of destroyed engines is really not that helpful unless it is known what they were exposed to. .... over revs? overheated? improperly broken in? improperly maintained?

What is the detailed history?

nyone

Given the above discussion re cold start/operation would this be of any use now that the winter is coming? http://proheatproducts.com/index.php...id=2&chapter=5

Flat6 Innovations

This vehicle did not log any over revs. These rod bolts don't have to see over revs to fail.

The detailed history is 105K miles (yes, this one actually has miles on it) and it has seen daily driver duty as well as track service. It failed at Atlanta Motorsports Park while on track. The failure was a classic in its details and the parts that were taken out.

While the original poster of this thread got by only needing crankshaft (not normal), the owner of this 997S engine did not. He needs a new block, crankshaft, IMS assembly, crankshaft carrier and one cylinder head. This is the typical, and to be expected damage from this failure when it (especially) occurs on track.

Yet? We've been seeing those engines from an internal point of view for over 4 years now. This week I received two engine failure calls from owners of 9a1 engines. One broke a timing chain (and is inbound) and the other broke rod bolts. The timing chain failed on the street, the rod bolts failed on the track.

These engines are starting to show their colors, some 5 years into their trials... We knew what would happen, thats why we built our 4.2 in 2010 and have been revising it every since. I pulled apart a 9a1 with 11 miles on it (2010 Cayman S), and not because I had to, but because we had to be the first inside the engine to start development. Today we have our own crankshafts, billet rods, pistons, Nickies cylinders, timing chains, valve springs & retainers, valves and camshafts. That takes a lot of dollars and initiative. It also takes *****, because I had zero help and no parts were available, unless we made them. It also took fabricating our own special tools.

So. We are ready and we have been, just like we were the first on the M96/97 issues and resolutions.

No, but remember, IF these engines fail they cost DOUBLE to repair over their M96/97 counterparts. Also, realize that the amount of Metzger powered cars out there are very small in comparison to M96/97, so we will of course see less of them.

122K. It lost an IMS bearing (early 997, still equipped with M96 style IMSB)

Schpee007

Know the intent of the question is probably the highest mileage 997 engine that came into Flat6s shop, but on a related note...I saw a 2009 C2S Cab move through Park Place in Dallas a couple weeks ago which had 154k on the clock from the original owner. Sold quickly. Asking was $32k.

Flat6 Innovations

I am sure that is the question the poster had.

That said, remember, I don't see healthy engines. We don't repair "cars" and we don't do oil changes and function as a normal shop. If we see a car, it has a broken engine and has usually been "given up" on by another shop.

So my points of view are very biased.

Para82

Jake, I much appreciate you sharing that data, good insight on new and old.

utkinpol

Jake, just statistically wise, from those cars that get to your shop, what is the ratio between on-track and non-track failures?

96redLT4

+1 No need for Flat6 to be so cagey. I think everyone with any bit of sense respects his ability to opine on all things regarding a flat six...
Jim

Mudflaps

Hi all, first post here on rennlist. I am NOT a porsche owner, have had several (4) e30's, and a turbo e36. I read this thread several weeks back and created an account just to ask some questions. I am a prospective 964/993/996(gt2/3/turbo)/997 owner.

1. If porsche knows, or there is evidence of issues with alusil/lokasil coatings, why not use nikasil exclusively? I know in the case of this motor, the worn cylinder bores were only the red herring pointing to the final failure. This does not absolve the poor tune and potentially poor temp control in this situation. I'm sure any lining would eventually fail, but why is this compromised in the first place? Why would porsche not use nikasil in every application, especially in a motor with such tight tolerances?

2. Who does make a good tune that would have provided improved performance, but not compromised the health of the motor with ridiculous AFR's and ambitious timing settings?

3. OP or Jake, how is the car coming along?

Thanks!

Henrik964

Any news? Long time no.update.

chuck911

Thanks to the up, I just read through this fascinating thread. Someone should compile all Jakes very informative posts into one convenient reading list. Oh wait, they have! https://rennlist.com/forums/search.p...rchid=22093267 Okay, second request, someone should tag all the derogatory PM's to Jake and post a link, so we can all pile on and maybe drive the PC police out of business. Because, and I don't mean to get political, but that's what it is. When you seek to impose your will on another through pressure and outside the realm of open civil discourse then that's what you are, the PC police. I'm glad to hear he's gotten less here than another forum, but really, it should be zero. The man is trying- no not trying, he's made a very successful career out of actually helping. Not just fixing but developing, improving. Anyone throwing a wet blanket on that deserves all the shame we can shovel his way.

Its been long enough now we should have not only build info, but driving impressions, maybe even xx,000 mile report. Driving one of these rare Raby builds has got to be an experience worth writing about.