dreamof911

Dcharnet, I am looking at a 2006 C2 with 18K miles. I test drove the car the other day and it ran great. The dealership I am buying it from, took it to the Porsche dealership where it was originally purchased to have them take a look at it. It's a 2 owner car and clean. I am worried about the IMS issue, but they only want 39K for it.

dcharnet

"Take a look?" You need a proper PPI before you buy. The price seems good---is the market reacting to the low rumble??---but even a competent PPI including an oil analysis/ filter cutting for particulate matter and a boroscope and other diagnostics are a snapshot in time and cannot predict what will happen in a few years.

You cannot upgrade the IMS bearing on an 06 without dissasembling the motor. One cylinder bank is prone to overheating in these motors, and relatively poor oil flow coupled with tight tolerances can create cold start lubrication problems which may spell trouble. Or, it might run forever.

I had been looking at an 06 S with a new short block from Porsche and a 2 year Porsche warranty. The cylinder had cracked out of warranty on cold start after sitting all winter, and at 25,000 miles the poor owner paid $25,000 out of pocket with no help from Porsche. This was the catalyst for my research. I decided to avoid the car, despite a good price. In the context of assessing this car I read enough in the way of design/ engineering analyses of the pre 09 motor and heard enough anecdotal evidence to avoid them for myself. The probability of future problems was just too high for me compared to 09 and newer cars. I understand that this may seem counterintuitive when the car looks and runs great and when the Porsche dealer says it looks good. I would suspect that most dealers would say that. Many I have spoken to say that there is no IMS bearing issue after 04. I spoke recently to a Porsche salesman who had been a Porsche mechanic. As much as he could in his situation, he acknowledged all of these pre-09 issues---IMS bearing, RM seal, penchant for overheating in one cylinder bank and oil flow design issues-- and confirmed my decision to look for an 09. Go to Flat Six Innovations website and peruse.

dreamof911

Thank you for your perspective. I appreciate it and will keep it in mind. I certainly don't want my first Porsche to be a disaster.

dcharnet

For me, this is an exercise in reasonable probabilities. The potential for issues in pre-09 cars appears to me to be enough greater that, with the option to go either way, I choose not to buy in that sector.

It is hard to quantify that. If I owned a pre-09, I would investigate the methods that exist to minimize the major issues and just drive the car; but with an eye towards eventually going to a post-08. I think that the enlightened purchaser will eventually (if not already) differentiate between the old engine and the new one(s), and there will be a value decline in the pre-09 sector, and, of course, the greater the chances are that in time the old engine will bite you.

And to be completely candid, Porsche's history of issues over the last years, and their hardline response to these issues, leads me to wonder periodically if something like a BMW M4 with that bulletproof sweet 6 is a better option.

In the interest of deepening this discussion, I would welcome any critique or comment on these views. We all love Porsches, and we are all looking for solid information. Jake Raby of Flat Six Innovations, for one, might disagree with me on the post-08 superiority.

Fahrer

M engines are known to fail as well. I had a 2008 535 ( not M but milder tune) and it was nothing but problems. I have and would not hesitate to own a 2008 (or 2007) 911. Cylinder scoring and rod bolt failure potential still exists with the 2009 and later engines. I would not worry about this either, though.

dreamof911

Well the report came back. The only major item was the brake fluid needed to be changed. However they didn't perform a compression test or check for over revs. Under normal circumstances I would say this is a very nice car. I will find out tomorrow what kind of warranty they will offer on the car and how much it will cost.

zirrah

I wouldnt call any BMW turbo engine bullet proof. And early E-46 M3's had engine issues too.

wardrive

I think you're probably over-thinking the 997.1 vs 997.2 purchase.

Here is my take as someone who just recently purchased a 07 C4S with low miles (under 10k) and a 6 yr warranty. I've been driving it every day and I'm not worried about a darn thing.

Basically its all about the money. How much do you want to spend? If you're really concerned about the IMS issue, and the ****ty tele-metrics in the 997.1 and want to pay a premium of 10-20k more for a 997.2 over a similar 997.1 model, then do it. If you got the budget set for a 997.2, then definitely go for it - I would agree that the 997.2 is a better car then a similar outfitted 997.1

But if you have a lower budget, and its more accessible to purchase a 997.1 model, I really wouldn't be as concerned with buying one as long as:

- you buy from a dealer or previous owner that has good maintenance records
- you get a clear PPI report from a reputable mechanic or dealer
- a warranty (CPO or 3rd party)

The 997.1 is a great car either way.

My friend, at the same time I got my car, brought a 11' 997.2 cs. He paid basically 20k more then my car and I have a C4S with more options (i.e. full leather, adaptive seats, etc.). Money no object, I would take his car - new engine, more HP, better tele-metrics, LCD lights, etc. But for the 20k difference - please I'm definitely happy with my car.

Again, its all about the money and how much you want to spend.

Thedips

Sounds like a great price

dreamof911

It is a great price the car was clean. I had to pass on the car. Not because of the condition of the car. Because I didn't feel right about spending that kind of money on something I have concerns about. Someone will get a great car, but it won't be me unfortunately. I'm not in the position to risk 39K.

dcharnet

I completely understand your position. It is how I feel too. Statistically, the risk of issues declines in 06 and after. But then I read Jake Raby's analysis of the pre-09 motor design, and I conclude that if a choice is available, they should be avoided. Of course Jake has products and services to sell, but I find his technical analysis of design flaws or weaknesses in the pre 09 motors to be objective and rigorous, and I conclude that I should look elsewhere. It is human nature that the owner of a pre-09 911 would resist this message.

There may be no right or wrong answer here. It comes down to your tolerance for risk, your ability to insure against failure or fund a catastrophic failure, and whether you can afford an 09 or later. This Porsche addiction may have no known cure. Satisfying it should not be so difficult.

dreamof911

Porsche passion can't be explained you either get it or you don't. BMW makes awesome cars, but they aren't Porsches. I know a guy who's had nothing but problems with Porsche, but yet he continues to buy them. Obviously, he can handle the expense, so he continues doing so. If it were anything other than a Porsche he probably would have moved on long ago. I will continue looking, until I find a Porsche I can afford to own.

dcharnet

Consider the '09 or newer Boxster. That has the upgraded motor, PDK, and other significant improvements. Wait until late Fall/ early Winter and track prices. You could probably find a really good '09 Boxster for $30k then, and perhaps a base '09 Carrera for $45k or less.

dreamof911

An '09 has been considered, and will be probably be what I end up with in the future.

dcharnet

I read on another thread that many if not all warranty companies have apparently stopped offering warranties on Porsches. If that is true---IF---it is sobering, and constitutes some objective data-based evidence dictating a cautious approach to any pre-'09. Has this ever happened before, even with Land Rover? The analogy that comes to mind is the refusal of private insurance companies to insure homes in chronic flood plains or in certain coastal areas. Maybe the US government will now offer 911 extended warranties. I joke, but am not amused. My major premise may be wrong here, but I am certainly watching the issue.