Considering a 997--What to Watch for?
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Joined: Jul 2014
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Considering a 997--What to Watch for?
I have been looking at 996's for a short time, and after reading up on the IMS issue I wonder if my best course of action would be to spend a bit more money and buy a 997. I assume the IMS issue has been resolved in the 997's? I did see one post here that someone thought they had an IMS failure.
If the IMS is not an issue, is there anything I need to watch out for with the 997's? I have been looking for a toy in the $20k-$25k range, now I'll be thinking $35k, so it will be a 2006-2008 car. Of course, if I keep this up I'm going to end up at a Porsche dealership buying a new car so I'll have a warranty... LOL!
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
If the IMS is not an issue, is there anything I need to watch out for with the 997's? I have been looking for a toy in the $20k-$25k range, now I'll be thinking $35k, so it will be a 2006-2008 car. Of course, if I keep this up I'm going to end up at a Porsche dealership buying a new car so I'll have a warranty... LOL!
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 116
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From: Northern Virginia
My advice would be to buy the newest 997 you can afford. I'm a longtime Corvette owner and recent 997 owner but did a ton of research before getting mine. The 2006-2008 cars have a new IMS design that is much less prone to failure. I personally think that issue is way overblown, you do not need to buy a 997.2 car which are much more expensive.
Be sure there are no RMS leaks and another weak spot could be the water pump and coolant tank/cap. Tires brakes and other maintenance items are a little on the expensive side so make sure they look in good shape before buying. Other then that these are pretty solid cars you should enjoy for a long time.
Be sure there are no RMS leaks and another weak spot could be the water pump and coolant tank/cap. Tires brakes and other maintenance items are a little on the expensive side so make sure they look in good shape before buying. Other then that these are pretty solid cars you should enjoy for a long time.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 670
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From: San Antonio, TX
Early model 2005 997s had the problematic IMS and they do fail from time to time. From about April 2005 on they had the larger IMS bearing which rarely causes a problem. There are quite a few 2006s around the 40k mark and a few higher mileage ones for 35k or less, so finding one in your budget should not be a problem. The S models seem to demand higher prices, although the base is still a great vehicle.
Buying any used vehicle out of warranty is a crap shoot, you take your chances and hope for the best. A PPI will help reduce the risk, but will not eliminate it. Some sort of existing warranty is nice, but not essential.
Some people spend months or even years looking for the "right" car. It took me a few days to find one I liked and that was that. We are talking about eight year old cars that are not exactly uncommon, it's not a car for life. Your average soccer mom is driving around in an SUV that costs the same or more.
Maintenance history is nice, but again may or may not mean much. Maintenance costs are going to be a little higher than your average vehicle. Where you can get stung is in repair costs. For example I had a small oil leak in two of the plug tubes, something that a PPI would likely never find, and it required the motor to be dropped to fix it.
Find a car you like, get a PPI, buy it, drive it, and have fun.
Buying any used vehicle out of warranty is a crap shoot, you take your chances and hope for the best. A PPI will help reduce the risk, but will not eliminate it. Some sort of existing warranty is nice, but not essential.
Some people spend months or even years looking for the "right" car. It took me a few days to find one I liked and that was that. We are talking about eight year old cars that are not exactly uncommon, it's not a car for life. Your average soccer mom is driving around in an SUV that costs the same or more.
Maintenance history is nice, but again may or may not mean much. Maintenance costs are going to be a little higher than your average vehicle. Where you can get stung is in repair costs. For example I had a small oil leak in two of the plug tubes, something that a PPI would likely never find, and it required the motor to be dropped to fix it.
Find a car you like, get a PPI, buy it, drive it, and have fun.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2014
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Thanks! It is a tough call. This all started because I saw THE Porsche that was an icon to me in my younger days... The 928S4. I haven't had a toy since before my kids were born, and I just think it's time. Started looking, set a budget, but then realized I wanted newer amenities and features. So--I started looking at 911's in the same budget number ($20k to $25k). Enter the IMS, and now the 997 is a consideration.
Most likely in the end I'll wind up with a 996 that has had an IMS bearing replacement, etc. Still no guarantee, but it does give you peace of mind.
Most likely in the end I'll wind up with a 996 that has had an IMS bearing replacement, etc. Still no guarantee, but it does give you peace of mind.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 584
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From: ATL/SW FL
You don't want a 35k 997 unless you look really closely for the right one.... staying away from the '05 (much advised) you could get a basic (non-S) 2006 with higher miles. Find a one-two owner if possible with records and you'll be fine, just limited as to your selection.
AutoTrader has 15 to choose from in the Nation. Lowest mile coupes are 60k ish and theres a convertible with 50k ish. Good luck!!! I hope you find what you want.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ear=2006&Log=0
John
AutoTrader has 15 to choose from in the Nation. Lowest mile coupes are 60k ish and theres a convertible with 50k ish. Good luck!!! I hope you find what you want.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ear=2006&Log=0
John
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Racer
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 423
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Almost hate to say it with some of the stuff going on around here lately but - Full PPI with a DME report is a must. That being said the sky isn't falling if it has a few over revs. Barring some recent and possibly catastrophic over revs in category 4-6 for me, it wouldn't be a deal breaker. 1 & 2, meh...I bounce some other vehicles I have off the rev limiter going to the grocery store due to tire spin.
I'm really not sure you would want a 997 in your budget. The 35k examples are all going to be story or problem cars, with a lot of mileage. I think I'd rather have an excellent 996 then a beat up 997.
IMS failures, although largely overblown and sensationalized, do happen. That's going to be a personal decision. It would keep me up at night, but that's just me. I'm a worrier. They aren't exactly dropping like flies but 996's and early 997's are prone. My mechanic has done a few too many rebuilds for my personal comfort level. Sure it might only be a small fraction of the cars he services on a regular basis but it wasn't something I wanted to think about. If it's not something that's going to bother you then I would say the odds are fairly remote that you would experience a failure.
I'm really not sure you would want a 997 in your budget. The 35k examples are all going to be story or problem cars, with a lot of mileage. I think I'd rather have an excellent 996 then a beat up 997.
IMS failures, although largely overblown and sensationalized, do happen. That's going to be a personal decision. It would keep me up at night, but that's just me. I'm a worrier. They aren't exactly dropping like flies but 996's and early 997's are prone. My mechanic has done a few too many rebuilds for my personal comfort level. Sure it might only be a small fraction of the cars he services on a regular basis but it wasn't something I wanted to think about. If it's not something that's going to bother you then I would say the odds are fairly remote that you would experience a failure.
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 16
I have an early '05 with the small IMS bearing which I had retrofitted. Although the bearing in the later ones seems to be comparatively safe from failure, I have seen other engine failures like cylinder scoring occur with what appears to be more frequency on those. Although perhaps that's because it's the next-weakest link. Personally if I was in the market today I would be looking at 997.2's which thus far seem to be more bulletproof in all manners.
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Joined: May 2014
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With a budget of $35k i would be looking for a solid 996. I agree with ezkill.
Better to get the top of the market car that's well taken care of than the bottom of the market 997.
If you do go 997 then get the base model and it might fit in your budget. The base 997 is still a fantastic car.
Better to get the top of the market car that's well taken care of than the bottom of the market 997.
If you do go 997 then get the base model and it might fit in your budget. The base 997 is still a fantastic car.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,091
Likes: 5
From: Southeast Michigan
J...I've had two 996's...and last fall bought a CPO 2007 black C2S for $49k. Trust me man...pony up the extra loot and get a CPO 997 and you'll be happy you did.
You may find a few 2006 vehicles...and there are plenty of 2007's...however it's going to cost you about $45k to get quality.
Break open that piggy bank & get a nice car with piece of mind!
You may find a few 2006 vehicles...and there are plenty of 2007's...however it's going to cost you about $45k to get quality.
Break open that piggy bank & get a nice car with piece of mind!
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 5
From: Austin, TX
I had a budget of about $45k and ended up buying an early 2005 C2 with 49k miles, one owner, sport chrono, adaptive sport seats, bose, etc for $34k. The car is in good mechanical condition and the money saved is in the brokerage account for incidentals. I am also strongly considering the IMS retrofit when it goes in for a new clutch (I'd guess in the next 10k miles). I do think the IMS issue is overblown but it is better to be safe than sorry.
I'm using the car as a DD and loving it. I saw a few 2006 C2's that could have been had around the same price with higher mileage or with 4-6 owners. I personally did not like the interior or exterior of the 996.
Try to find an indie mechanic you trust and keep your eyes open for a good deal. Good luck!
I'm using the car as a DD and loving it. I saw a few 2006 C2's that could have been had around the same price with higher mileage or with 4-6 owners. I personally did not like the interior or exterior of the 996.
Try to find an indie mechanic you trust and keep your eyes open for a good deal. Good luck!
Racer
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 306
Likes: 3
I agree a 35 storied high mile 997 is gonna need everything done just to get it right and for piece of mind. Then add another 4-5 k for ims upgrade , clutch service , and rms. also a water pump while your at it. 40-45 once u get it back to normal or on track. Car is reaching 8-10 years old
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,649
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From: NJ
Another option is the 987. The Boxster loses value more quickly than a 911 so one might get a much better deal with a car that is newer or in better shape........it could be a good choice unless, of course, it must be 911!
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 46
Likes: 14
I too am looking and am in the evaluation stage. My working conclusion is to buy an '09 or newer.
In addition to the known IMS bearing and RMS issues, there are inherent cooling and oil flow limitations in the '99-08 motor which can cause cracked cylinders and piston burning. Ironically, the likelihood of these issues increases with each model year through '08, since the motors become bigger and more stressed, while the IMS bearing issues decrease with the newer pre-'09 cars.
The new engine design in '09 purportedly rectified these issues, although some concern exists in the post-08 cars with carbon deposits secondary to direct injection. This is a concern in all DI cars, but the consequence is a relatively inexpensive fix, not a new motor. None of the Metzger turbo motors had these pre-09 issues, which in some respects makes a turbo a better choice pre-09. But expect higher acquisition and non-failure upkeep costs (though, I submit, less depreciation).
The statistical likelihood of a specific car having a problem is much smaller than the shadow of concern and critical comment. But my life, at least, is complicated enough without having to worry about such things in this realm. I choose to take this happy journey with the odds more in my favor of keeping it that way. No one can in good faith deny the unusual problems that have existed '99-08---read the pleadings and decree in the class action litigation if you assert otherwise. Eventually the marketplace will reflect this.
In addition to the known IMS bearing and RMS issues, there are inherent cooling and oil flow limitations in the '99-08 motor which can cause cracked cylinders and piston burning. Ironically, the likelihood of these issues increases with each model year through '08, since the motors become bigger and more stressed, while the IMS bearing issues decrease with the newer pre-'09 cars.
The new engine design in '09 purportedly rectified these issues, although some concern exists in the post-08 cars with carbon deposits secondary to direct injection. This is a concern in all DI cars, but the consequence is a relatively inexpensive fix, not a new motor. None of the Metzger turbo motors had these pre-09 issues, which in some respects makes a turbo a better choice pre-09. But expect higher acquisition and non-failure upkeep costs (though, I submit, less depreciation).
The statistical likelihood of a specific car having a problem is much smaller than the shadow of concern and critical comment. But my life, at least, is complicated enough without having to worry about such things in this realm. I choose to take this happy journey with the odds more in my favor of keeping it that way. No one can in good faith deny the unusual problems that have existed '99-08---read the pleadings and decree in the class action litigation if you assert otherwise. Eventually the marketplace will reflect this.
Last edited by dcharnet; Jul 28, 2014 at 10:31 PM.