Robocop305

This is my report!

09 C25-061414 Oil Sample Report.pdf

Ryan M Hartman

After the OP from last year, I checked the oil filter after 1000 miles and didn't see anything to be concerned about. Changed the oil today after 4500 miles and noticed flakes again. The plug is the replacement plug that I used to see if the shavings were metallic - which as you can see they obviously are.

Opinons?

Blu311

I assume you sent a sample to Blackstone? Let us know what the said.

gpjli2

Yeah sorry but I would be more concerned than last time. Not sure how to proceed here.

j beede

I wish I had seen your posting last year. Isn't the reason for doing postmortem on oil filters and installing Raby's "Guardian" to get an early warning on ferromagnetic particles in the oil system?You "lucked out" last June when you spotted magnetic particles in your filter but chose to keep driving--I gather. This in spite of your diligence in opening the filter and finding ferromagnetic particles. You were concerned enough to get an oil analysis... that reported high Fe. Apparently you took another good step and installed a magnetic drain plug. At that point you had done (almost) everything that you could do--except (Guardian and) taking action on the the red flags that were waving back then.

Okay, it is what it is. Most magnetic plugs accumulate a micro fine black (magnetic) sludge. Obviously you are collecting much coarser particles. I trust you agree that you cannot ignore this.

Have you sent photos to the warranty provider and to Jud at Raby/Flat6/RED? My guess is the dealer will say this is no big deal (to my knowledge they never use/inspect magnetic drain plugs or magnetic filter wraps) and that indy, IMSB vendors, and M97 re-builders will say you need to total rebuild since particles have circulated everywhere contaminating everything. I sincerely hope I am dead wrong and that the truth lies somewhere between these extremes. Good luck.

semicycler

Definitely time to act. Those shavings on your magnetic drain plug are not normal. Trying to stay positive for you. Perhaps you have caught a engine component failure early enough before it became catastrophic. Good luck!

Flat6 Innovations

Ouch.. The size and shape of those ells me that you are VERY lucky. Find the root of this before putting another mil on the engine.

MaciejPOL

I thought that there were no IMS issues in 997.2???

Hella-Buggin'

It could be a bearing, cylinder, piston, valve... Who knows. But that looks like more than typical engine break in.

Ericson38

Not bearing surface material, since that is lead/copper/aluminum. Bearing shells are steel.

NO IMS to be found in this engine. So no IMS issues.

Cylinders are non-mag material.

Pistons are non mag. Rings and rods and wrist pins are magnetic, but not in the pan, since engine is still running.

The two large and fast rotating cam chains area made of magnetic material.

Oil pumps and chains are magnetic.

Hard for valve material to get into the oil sump on a running engine.

Crank and cams are steel, but a crank isn't going to do that until the bearings really start letting go. If a cam lobe is letting go, or a lifter, or the variocam parts, then engine is going to lope and not run smooth, since the associated cylinder is not getting/exhausting as much air, due to under spec valve actuations.

Are you the original owner? What was the oil change history? You did one at 12.5K miles and one at 16K or so, but what about the 1st oil change ? What oil are you running ? Do you track it ? How did you break it in ? PDK ?

Flat6 Innovations

Oil pump drive sprocket wear. Mode of Failure #8, and recently has become the most common 997.2 failure. I first saw this in May of 2010, very early in my 9a1 development.

I have found several cases where these drives were machined elliptically, or had their center drive machined off center. Metallurgy of these drives is also in question, as well as the method of attachment to the PWM pump.

A retrofit of a billet drive, in the car is possible. I developed the procedure and the component.

Wayne Smith

Thanks Jake. Good to know. What do you mean by several? Do you feel that this was solved and updated on later 9A1 motors? If metal like this is seen, how much warning is there before major failure? Can the OP drive the car to the repair, or is it time for a tow? Would you expect a fast drop to zero pressure? Is it likely that a magnetic drain plug will keep this metal out of the rest of the motor? The paranoia that exists within us wants to know!

Wayne Smith

One more thing ... do you sell your debrief part with instructions to third parties, and if not, how should the OP proceed?

Flat6 Innovations

To date we've only been using the products in house. It's another patent pending development. We don't sell any parts.

Robocop305

First time I hear of this issue. It must be a very rare occurrence.