The powerboat analogy is not that far off. The cost of maintaining a couple of outboards can certainly make maintaining a Porsche look like a bargain. Believe it or not spare parts for them are gouged even more than Porsche parts. My boat was hit by lightning which blew every electronic part on the part, it took $10k in Yamaha parts just to get the motors running again, new radar, nav, fish finder, radio, etc, cost aboiut the same.

That said, a boat has to survive in some pretty nasty conditions, so you expect a lot of the coast associated with one. A Porsche is supposed to be a reliable every day sports car.

 

I take some issue with this, so, what are the limits and where did you obtain this information? Why do you think Porsche is "at the limits"? There seems to be a strong desire for folks to believe in things and make them more special than they may be. (Remove Porsche and insert man with pointy hat, or politician, or actor......)

Porsche and all car companies have long-term product planning and have done the math on how much energy is in a unit of gasoline etc. etc. etc. They also know about technologies that we haven't seen yet. Our cars are a mere point on a longer planning line.... they know where the limits are and we are not there.

I think the assumption that our cars are all that they can be is false. I also think that Porsche and all of the other companies have tons of tricks up their sleeves and don't implement them because they don't have to.

Our cars are mass produced consumer products. They are high-priced luxury goods. They are not some paradigm of engineering possibilities. It is just a cool car.... nothing more.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

 

My comment seemed to fly over your head. You're probably a sail boater.

I guarentee you that there are more power boats with outboard engines than there are Porsches in the world, and Yamaha owns the lion share of those sales.

But, other than that, I don't get your drift?

 

Great point, neanicu. I absolutely agree. No point in owning a Porsche if the enjoyment of it is diminished by worry, for me at least, over durability. For now I have a CPO warranty to provide peace of mind. Come Dec 2015 it will be decision time. My hope is the Porsche Principle referenced elsewhere in this thread of "high performance meets outstanding everyday practicality" rings true and I happily and confidently roll off the CPO looking forward to years of driving and ownership satisfaction.

 

I've never owned a boat and cannot comment on the satisfaction of owning one. But sure hope the cost of ownership analogy is a loose comparison. I've always heard a boat = a hole into which you throw money. No offense meant to any boat owner in the community. Just my non-boat owner opinion.

 

I guess I don't look at my Porsche as having to be reliable transportation. I bought it as a toy car to drive and have fun with. I use my Tahoe for transportation as it is designed more for heavy duty and high mileage driving. While all of us would want to have a reliable car, as an enthusiast, I guess I am willing to take the good as well as the bad. That's why I really can't relate to Porsche owners worrying about when the next shoe will drop as far as repair issues. I'm not trying to be wise guy, but those who can't enjoy their cars for the worry of what will break, probably should not be owning a higher end performance car.

In case someone uses a Corvette as an affordable and reliable alternative, I had serious engine problems under warranty with my ZO6, so in my experience, that is not a a better alternative.

 

My drift is (along with the purpose of this thread) that we ALREADY paid to play (we would not be talking about it otherwise, wouldn't we?). In question here is whether the "duration" of the play is commensurate with the said pay.
So after I pay, I do expect to play. For as long as possible. It is called expectations about a product that touts "there is no substitute" and when a company goes there, their clients are bound to set that bar rather high.

But it seems such a question is not something you're particularly concerned with...

To each its own, I really have no issue with that.

 

Since analogies seem to be useful in this thread, how about this one.

Consider that I have some Tupperware tumblers that lasted through three children. They were used every day. Dropped. Thrown. Knocked over. Put in the dishwasher. Abused. Cheap to buy. Yet they still look and function nearly as they did when purchased about 25 years ago. But rather ugly.

I also have some Waterford stemware. Fragile. Gingerly picked up and set down. Never used by the children, rarely used at all. Never placed in a dishwasher. One piece fell over and broke. Stored in shock-absorbing wrap.Expensive to buy. But quite beautiful. Makes drinking an experience to savor.

Obviously, each has its place in the universe. The pluses and minuses of one do not cancel out the pluses and minuses the other.

 

brilliantly poetic.

 

I have an analogy too...

My old, cheap and cheerful Seiko Atlas has been worn almost every day, abused, knocked, scraped and otherwise banged in ways Seiko probably never imagined. Rugged, I was about to say little but it's actually pretty hefty, sports watch that faithfully continues to keep decently accurate time at my wrist almost every day.

I also received a Baume & Mercier dress watch for my 40th birthday. Beautiful, thin, a beauty to behold and wear on special occasions. Faithfully kept in a winder and worn with the care such a fine crafted (not to mention expensive) piece of mechanical engineering deserves. One day, couple years ago at a wedding reception, it fell from my hand and landed two stories down on ceramic tiled floor. Not a scratch, not a ding, kept on working like nothing happened.

Indeed each thing has its place in the universe. What I learned from this is a valuable lesson: if I get something that is supposed to be used, I might as well use it and so I did. I started using the B&M and the Omega and all the other fine things I'm lucky enough and worked my *** off to own... none of that stuff will follow me when I die so "regret" should not be my final conscious thought before my last breath.

Back to the subject at hand, in the end it's all about expectations. I was happy my B&M survived the two stories drop. I did not expect that to happen. It surpassed my expectations. I don't believe Cuda expected his fine Waterford piece to survive the fall so I don't believe disappointment added to the fact he was broken hearted. His expectations were met.

Imagine you bought into the "every day practicality" thing Porsche preaches. If you needed an expensive repair just out of warranty you'd be more than broken hearted, you'd be deeply disappointed and that's something pretty hard to get over. Porsche might lose a customer forever and when the word goes out, we have threads like these spawning all over the enthusiast forums further eroding the brand. No brand on this planet can survive too much of this kind of "erosion". Like any successful cult following, you need new members to own or crave to own your products and for that you need to at least meet if not exceed the expectations you set yourself.

As simple as that...

 

Nice post, BogdanR. Well put. Here's to all our 997s living up to our individual brand expectations.

 

Agree! I had 1982 280ZX Tubro that I babied and only drove in the summer. Had to sell it... didn't get what I thought... very disappointed I didn't drive it and enjoy it. Now, my last two Porsche have winter wheels and tires and I am out there!

Mom purchased some expensive linens about 35 years ago and never used them saving them for special days... now off to eBay... they had disintegrated and were worthless. She never used them but liked owning them. She was pretty ticked off. You can draw your own moral from this one.

Normally I would agree with you, but Porsche appears to be different. The power of the brand is overcoming the following: 1) Cheapened engine that has a bad failure rate... for 10 years.... 2) Denies it... loses a class action suite... 3) Forums and mechanics all over the place dis the car, at least more than other brands. 4) Porsche raises prices and breaks sales records. Wha???

Cashing out a brand name is nothing new. Food companies buy quality niche products, mass produce and cheapen ingredients; Ford's Jaque Nasser takes over, rips out QA functions, orders engineering to design to warranty, increases profits, reaps huge bonuses..... leaves.

Is Porsche immune? Seems to be. I believe enthusiasts made this brand but face it, posers make the profit. And now volume is getting to the point that enthusiasts are less of a factor. My point is that humans are so shallow that they have no problems wearing a useless codpiece as long as it is expensive and displays their wealth.

I had two Porsche engines blow. What did I do? I purchased another one. A codpiece? I hope not or I need to see an analyst.

Sometimes sales and profits go up, sometimes the brand is killed... I don't know, it is a high risk crap shoot.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

 

Two engines blown. Now, that would **** me off!

 

too bad "there is no substitute"!

 

And so if the 120hp/L S2000 (I owned a newer 109hp/L S2000) can hold up why cant the 20 years newer 'pushing the limits' 100hp/L 997 that is 3x the price hold up equally as well? Porsches are great but some people defend them like they are the only great engineering on the planet.

Another good post from Bruce in Philly