Minok: Your interpretation is unique...I think you are kidding ?

 

"driver's ed voids CPO warranty "

Some how that is not a surprise to me,

and if you put the car into a wall at a DE your street auto insurance won't cover you either.

 

Well, it all depends on what was meant with "Drivers Education". I read that in the traditional broad sense of the word - what we know as drivers ed. Not as the auto-club DE events at tracks.

 

I'm not sure what the normal speeds are for the Porsche Driving Experience but they sell the cars afterwards at dealers as demo models with the remainder of the factory warranty intact. I saw this myself at Champion as they had one for sale a year ago when they were switching out the 997's in the driving school.

 

Interesting thread, and caused me to look in the owners manual of my "11 GT3. There is nothing in the warranty book concerning voiding warranty because of tracking, DE etc. In the owners manual there is but one statement

"Do not participate in motor racing events, sports driving school etc during the first 2,000 miles/3000 kilometers"

Actually there is a similar statement in my Cayenne manual that to paraphrase says " we do not recommend you track or autocross this vehicle during the break in period" both my vehicles are 2011's

I do think that since that time Porsche, probably because of lawyers, has evolved that position to a more anti any motorsport or driver education stance. Most likely the reason they have not offered sport bucket seats for the 991 Gt3 series and other 991 vehicles in the US. Remember the lawyers are in charge and we must be protected from ourselves.

That said I think the real roadblock is insurance companies and that is a shame as advanced driver training whether in organized track driver Ed schools or autocross improves driver skills that make you safer on the highways both by increased awareness and accident avoidance skills.

But then in todays world the last thing you want to do is bring logic and facts into a conversation.

 

Anyone who thinks Porsche is the same company they use to be is kidding themselves. From my experience and people who have purchased cars new, Porsche will just about do anything to deny a warranty claim. Yes, Porsche will deny warranty coverage for any Porsche that is on the track. I was speaking to a service adviser in Chicago and he told me they would go to track events just to right down VIN#'s!!

Lately Porsche quality has been pretty laughable. You have 911's, Boxster's, and Cayman's with RMS/IMS issues. Then you have Cayenne's starting to show signs of scored cylinders in their NA V8's. When did Porsche have so many catastrophic engine problems? Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the brand! You would think for how expensive these cars are they would at least stand behind them within reason..

As for the gentlemen interested in Corvettes.. the new Stingray is a phenomenal car! If I were in your shoes go for the Stingray. I bet you won't have any problems with warranty either..

 

Haha, I think Dan owns a Chevy dealership...

 

You may be right but, for the fun of it and because I'm bored, I'll play Devil's Advocate here.

I don't want to be an Apologetist for VW, PAG, or PCNA but over the past 15 years production numbers have significantly increased so you have more units out there and this might make it seem like there are more quality issues. You also have forums like this where quality issues are aired such that more people are aware of them. Flash back to the mid-90s and earlier, limited/no internet, far fewer units manufactured and, while there may have been a lot of quality issues, it was just hard to hear about them. What's my point? Without adequate data you just can't say "lately". Porsche may have always had quality issues and unless and until you can make an apples to apples comparison between pre and post internet perceptions (vs. reality), account for production numbers and quality issues as a percentage thereof, and compare and define Porsche quality to other automakers quality this type of statement while perhaps 100 percent true, has no basis in statistical fact.

 

haha.. I got chuckle out of this! Guilty as charged.. (sarcasm)

That's why my original post refers to "my experiences" with the brand. It has been my experience that the older Porsche's (pre-98) from my sampling pool (Friends and I) have never had a catastrophic engine failure. I'm sure your original post has some merit but there is no arguing that Porsche has some serious durability issues for the long term. When did replacing a whole engine become a service item? To be honest, I don't think Porsche will stop these practices until we start holding them accountable for their garbage and quit making excuses on their behalf. These problems are inexcusable..

Every car company has some sort of quality issues. However, I can't think of another car company that has so many catastrophic engine failures such as Porsche. Can you?

Again this is just my opinion..

 

Look, I don't disagree but my daughter has a cold and I'm sitting here bored with nothing to do; to keep my sanity lets say I'm full of crap and you're right. Why (not why am I full of crap but why are you right)?

Excluding the transaxle models obviously, Porsche stands by the rear mounted Flat Six and they had wrung about as much HP and torque from it as they could up to the 993 air cooled version. To keep their cars competitive form a power/performance perspective maybe the water-cooled flat six that produces 300-plus HP and 200-plus ft. pounds of torque isn't quite as sturdy as the less powerful air-cooled versions. And, being cynical, perhaps PAG just doesn't care. That is, they have determined they will still make a handsome profit with cars that are less than mechanically reliable. I dunno', it seems like every high end car out there comes with it's own set of issues. How does F-car reliability stack up? Like Porsche, maybe owners of those cars care about the looks and/or prestige more than the quality.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go stick pins in my eyes, just to break up the tedium.

 

Hey, I wasn't trying to offend you with my last post I was just stating my opinion on the matter. Like I said, there is no question there is some merit in what you said so I'm not disputing that at all. I just wanted to keep it simple and not bring in all these other factors, since I was talking about just my sampling pool.

No worries!

Hope that daughter of yours feels better!




Ferrari reliability...now there something to laugh about..

 

It's like we're both trying not offend each other. Keep warm up there this week. If it's any consolation it may be brutally warm here in NorCal but we are in a drought (which I think is worse, long term, than the cold - it's so bad people are excited about a 30 percent chance of rain on Friday!)

 

Can you get me a deal to trade in my 2012 Carrera GTS for the new Z06 when it comes out?....no joke I am serious.

 

many would agree w/ your warranty assessment and its true that a company, w/ its self proclaimed "rich in motorsport" denies track claims. I've seen it first hand and now im hearing more more instances from "involved" people about how corp is taking a stronger line. its sad for legit claims.

your comment about the 4.8 V8 is interesting. I have small reminders that this engine has issues. My tech stopped short of "scored" but there are definately some issues.

 

LOL.. I can see where this is going.. i'm going to start getting PM's about Corvette deals now all because of a sarcastic joke!

There is a guy on the Cayenne forum that is very informative on the subject. He was actually hired by Porsche to figure out why the cylinders were becoming scored. He found that Porsche had the incorrect piston to cylinder wall clearance. Unfortunately, I can think of the guys name for the life of me right now but he is a rennlist sponsor.