francars

I have seen on older 997s (2005-2007) that asking prices are higher than what KBB asks for.

So my question is for you guys who have bought lets say this year how close or below KBB did you get your car for? Assuming you input all if not almost all options on KBB

Cuda911

Prices for used Porsches change more than prices for used Hondas. There is a much smaller data set for Porsches, and so many configurations that greatly affect price (ex: S, coupe, targa, turbo, cabriolet, etc.). When valuing a Porsche, you need to look at multiple sources. Look also at the "Completed Listings" on Ebay. It doesn't matter what people are asking, all that matters is sales price.

KBB is a useful tool, but it's only one source to consult to assist in determining the value of a specific car.

tommy618

FWIW, I bought my 09 Targa few months ago well under KBB dealer price

rglbegl

KBB is used to price cars according to banking regulations.
Here in Cali a bank will finance a car and use KBB as the price point. (Other states or banks may have other rules)

KBB does not buy cars, nor do they sell them.


Don't use selling sites to get a real number either. . ... those are ASKING prices.

Buddhamonk

Just bought one for 2K above private sale KBB (bought it at a Jaguar dealership). Not sure what dealer KBB was.

sjfehr

For starters, "asking price" is not a selling price. Porsche owners often seem to be wildly optimistic about the value of their own cars. (See: Excellence classified ads, which are often lol)

The big problem, though, is that Porsches are not commodity cars. Outside of very few markets, the number of cars sold is very small, so traditional market forces can be overcome by seller (and buyer) motivation and patience. Add to it that the demographic of new Porsche buyers is different than those that buy ysed Porsches and their desired options are different as well, (which is ignored by KBB), you have a situation where an accurate price is really hard to peg.

When I bought my car, I couldn't get the dealer to get within $2k of dealer KBB and walked. Found a better car a few months later and paid $3k under private seller KBB for it.

kosmo

Www.manheim.com

Bruce In Philly

Yep, this is the only reality out there.

When I purchased my 2009 last January, I had two months of national 911 sales data from Manheim... I learned a few things from having the data and actually going through the experience trying to buy a car:

1 - You are not going to get a lower price than a Manheim price.... otherwise the dealer will dump the car at auction
2 - Auction cars are not crap cars as some have said... this auction system is a valid and a very used system of moving market inequities.... A Porsche dealer noted to me they buy P-cars at auction when they need inventory...
3 - Options are irrelevant at auction. The data I had denoted only model (S, cabrio), locations of the auction, color, transmission, miles, and condition (IIRC). I could not figure out how the condition codes were levied.... absolute or relative to the miles. I find it humorous that dealers and buyers tout options as a justification for a higher price - the Volvo dealer I purchased my '09 from had no clue what the options were on the car (happened to be loaded).
4 - I saw the options list denoted in the Volvo ad were not accurate given the picture of the car (transmission description was wrong - it was a manual as I wanted). The dealer told me they use a "listing service" that publishes the options. I found this quite humorous as the VIN only denotes a few items.
5. - You can get a fantastic. unbelievable deal, as I did, if you are patient, do much analysis, and buy a sports car from Minnesota at the end of January after a snowstorm. I used Cars.com and Autotrader and set up email alerts.
6. The guys in the Porsche Club, local chapter, can be fantastic help. When I saw the car in MN and was serious, I contacted the local P-club chapter there and one of their members offered to go look and drive the car. He then said it was fantastic, and recommended a local P-speed shop that did an inspection for me and dumped the computer for $125. This puts into big question the value of possibly paying way more to use a local dealer.
7. - Don't by a Porsche where the environment is full of stupid wealthy people (I will leave the reasoning for this one up to you).

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Redline911

Quite true. The dealer that I bought my car from picked it up at auction. Car was bought new at Beverly Hills Porsche, serviced there for 4 years, then traded in at Pacific Porsche where it was then serviced for 3 years. Finally traded in at a Jaguar dealer in Orange County that sent it to auction. Car has been serviced it's whole life at a P dealer, was super clean and still went through an auction.

Macster

My info is that while auction cars are not all crap there are some stinkers out there. I have encountered "used" cars at various Porsche dealers -- I often spot them in the service area -- and in asking the techs about them ( customer car or trade in?) found they came in from via an auction and while some are in pretty good condition a few were in not so good condition. Tires worn out. Brakes worn out. Clutch slipping. Or other issues. And in some cases signs of body/paint work.

A few examples were rejected by the dealer the cars being in too poor a condition to bring to a salable condition.

kosmo

General guidelines at auctions:

1. Watch the dealers buyers . They usually know
2. Use a durametric tool
3. Use a high quality paint meter

PhilD

I found KBB prices on p-cars to be very optimistic (on the low side), although not quite as optimistic (on the high side) as some sellers! KBB can say all day long that a vehicle is worth X, but if you can't find one for that price it doesn't really matter what they say. As already mentioned it is a guide and, as with any vehicle with limited numbers available, that guide may not be all that accurate.

Perk10

kbb can be very helpful when looking at cookie cutter cars.

Porsche 911's cannot be correctly valued on a site like KBB. The fact that they are even on there surprises me (you wont find brands like Ferrari on KBB)....

Anyways, look at a manheim auction report if you can get access to one and learn the market.

I find that the best thing to do is go to www.cars.com or AutoTrader and do a search for the year make and model you're looking for. Do the advanced search and put in as much input as possible. Now take the "average" price of those cars and try to get the nicest car you can for under the average said price. Makes sense, right?

yemenmocha

This one goes both ways. Sometimes you can find a "like new" example from someone who drove it for a year or less and decided they did not want it, or just wanted the latest and greatest new car. Big depreciation for them and practically a new car for someone else.


OP - great advice from others. In my selling I like to look at KBB, Edmunds, NADA, and see if I can come up with a price range of sorts. Look at forums. Look at completed auctions. You should get a range and then you might have to input some subjective elements in there - whether the one you see is exactly the color combo you want, etc.

francars

Great comments you all. I always do KBB on previous Pcars I have owned and other brands. Usually the price point when I buy from private parties is KBB "good" condition. There are no excellent cars IMO when car has 30-40k miles. At least I have not found them yet.

My post was basically asking opinions on current 997 (specially 997.1) owners and what they ended up paying and if they followed KBB, NADA, etc.

I understand patience is the key in the game if I want to save money and get the car I want. On my search on 2005-08 models most if not all of the cars for sale are way over KBB.