Buying a lease return?
03-06-2013, 08:13 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Buying a lease return?
I'm looking at a 2010 C2S CPO with low miles that was purchased at an auction after a lease return. The lease return is a bit of a concern, but of more concern to me is that it has had two owners. I have visions of two half-wits who couldn't keep up the lease payments using launch control at every light. It's a PDK so I suspect that limits the ability to abuse, but should I consider it? Also, with a PDK and CPO, would a DME be of much use? Thanks in advance.
03-06-2013, 08:21 PM
#2
Drifting
Difficult question. When i bought my first 911, a 993 C2S, it had two previous owners.
I bought it sight un-seen and had it shipped from half way across the country.
It was CPO and I had it inspected, twice. Once in the state where I was buying and once it arrived at my door. The car has been near flawless in the 12 years that I continue to own it.
Due your diligence, have it thoroughly examined. If it checks out, go for it.
I bought it sight un-seen and had it shipped from half way across the country.
It was CPO and I had it inspected, twice. Once in the state where I was buying and once it arrived at my door. The car has been near flawless in the 12 years that I continue to own it.
Due your diligence, have it thoroughly examined. If it checks out, go for it.
03-06-2013, 08:45 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
It's a PDK so theoretically it cant be over-rev'd...
I always figure "lease" is a very nice way of saying RENTAL. The lessee knows they are only having the car during warranty so they have no exposure. With that being said every car is its own story. Some people take care of their car whether they own it, rent it, borrow it, etc. Some people destroy their cars because that is just how they are wired. I had a customer try to trade me his 996 GT2 that he purchased new and when I asked him about the deep gouges in the leather dash, passenger door panel and seat he told me that he simply reclines the seat, removes the front wheel off his bike and he then saw no need to put a bike rack on the top.... You couldn't make this stuff up! In his mind a car is simply a tool, in this case a very fast tool.
What you want to find is a car where you can tell that the dealer simply hasn't detailed it but that it was truly loved. You can tell, but you have to look closely. I attend almost all of the Porsche financial auctions and I can tell you 90+% of the cars are not ones I would want to own. In 5 years I have bought 2 P-cars at auction. Every so often a nice, no excuses one is up for sale and the other dealers know it and bidding goes above retail. Crazy!
The two owners isn't ideal but it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Many of us car people trade cars faster than some people trade shoes, doesn't mean we didn't love the car, but that we have short attention spans.
Inspect, inspect, inspect. Dont simply trust "CPO" and the fancy storefront.
I always figure "lease" is a very nice way of saying RENTAL. The lessee knows they are only having the car during warranty so they have no exposure. With that being said every car is its own story. Some people take care of their car whether they own it, rent it, borrow it, etc. Some people destroy their cars because that is just how they are wired. I had a customer try to trade me his 996 GT2 that he purchased new and when I asked him about the deep gouges in the leather dash, passenger door panel and seat he told me that he simply reclines the seat, removes the front wheel off his bike and he then saw no need to put a bike rack on the top.... You couldn't make this stuff up! In his mind a car is simply a tool, in this case a very fast tool.
What you want to find is a car where you can tell that the dealer simply hasn't detailed it but that it was truly loved. You can tell, but you have to look closely. I attend almost all of the Porsche financial auctions and I can tell you 90+% of the cars are not ones I would want to own. In 5 years I have bought 2 P-cars at auction. Every so often a nice, no excuses one is up for sale and the other dealers know it and bidding goes above retail. Crazy!
The two owners isn't ideal but it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Many of us car people trade cars faster than some people trade shoes, doesn't mean we didn't love the car, but that we have short attention spans.
Inspect, inspect, inspect. Dont simply trust "CPO" and the fancy storefront.
03-06-2013, 08:48 PM
#5
Race Director
It's a PDK so theoretically it cant be over-rev'd...
I always figure "lease" is a very nice way of saying RENTAL. The lessee knows they are only having the car during warranty so they have no exposure. With that being said every car is its own story. Some people take care of their car whether they own it, rent it, borrow it, etc. Some people destroy their cars because that is just how they are wired. I had a customer try to trade me his 996 GT2 that he purchased new and when I asked him about the deep gouges in the leather dash, passenger door panel and seat he told me that he simply reclines the seat, removes the front wheel off his bike and he then saw no need to put a bike rack on the top.... You couldn't make this stuff up! In his mind a car is simply a tool, in this case a very fast tool.
What you want to find is a car where you can tell that the dealer simply hasn't detailed it but that it was truly loved. You can tell, but you have to look closely. I attend almost all of the Porsche financial auctions and I can tell you 90+% of the cars are not ones I would want to own. In 5 years I have bought 2 P-cars at auction. Every so often a nice, no excuses one is up for sale and the other dealers know it and bidding goes above retail. Crazy!
The two owners isn't ideal but it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Many of us car people trade cars faster than some people trade shoes, doesn't mean we didn't love the car, but that we have short attention spans.
Inspect, inspect, inspect. Dont simply trust "CPO" and the fancy storefront.
I always figure "lease" is a very nice way of saying RENTAL. The lessee knows they are only having the car during warranty so they have no exposure. With that being said every car is its own story. Some people take care of their car whether they own it, rent it, borrow it, etc. Some people destroy their cars because that is just how they are wired. I had a customer try to trade me his 996 GT2 that he purchased new and when I asked him about the deep gouges in the leather dash, passenger door panel and seat he told me that he simply reclines the seat, removes the front wheel off his bike and he then saw no need to put a bike rack on the top.... You couldn't make this stuff up! In his mind a car is simply a tool, in this case a very fast tool.
What you want to find is a car where you can tell that the dealer simply hasn't detailed it but that it was truly loved. You can tell, but you have to look closely. I attend almost all of the Porsche financial auctions and I can tell you 90+% of the cars are not ones I would want to own. In 5 years I have bought 2 P-cars at auction. Every so often a nice, no excuses one is up for sale and the other dealers know it and bidding goes above retail. Crazy!
The two owners isn't ideal but it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Many of us car people trade cars faster than some people trade shoes, doesn't mean we didn't love the car, but that we have short attention spans.
Inspect, inspect, inspect. Dont simply trust "CPO" and the fancy storefront.
OP: Get a DME readout for overrevs but also for engine run time. Use this to sanity check the miles. Lease vehicles are tempting targets to have the odometers tampered with to avoid the big penalty if the car is brought in with more miles than the lease agreement allowed for.
I'd like to see some service records too. My fear with a lease vehicle is the owner doesn't have it serviced to save costs.
03-06-2013, 08:54 PM
#6
Drifting
What you want to find is a car where you can tell that the dealer simply hasn't detailed it but that it was truly loved. You can tell, but you have to look closely. I attend almost all of the Porsche financial auctions and I can tell you 90+% of the cars are not ones I would want to own. In 5 years I have bought 2 P-cars at auction. Every so often a nice, no excuses one is up for sale and the other dealers know it and bidding goes above retail. Crazy!
(I mean spotless, low miles, taken care of)
03-06-2013, 09:29 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'd like to see some service records too. My fear with a lease vehicle is the owner doesn't have it serviced to save costs.
There are no records available. The salesman told me that all they have is what carfax provided - in other words no reported damage. It was shipped to the West coast from the East coast, so some concern about it being a Sandy survivor.
There are no records available. The salesman told me that all they have is what carfax provided - in other words no reported damage. It was shipped to the West coast from the East coast, so some concern about it being a Sandy survivor.
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03-07-2013, 02:09 AM
#9
Many 911's have 2, 3 or 4 owners with low miles. People buy them and not drive them very much, due to limited utility or functionality of the car. I have two friends who bought 911's and sold them within a year because they could not stand the harsh ride with bad backs. As long as the car has a clean history and been looked after, I would not be that concerned, however a one owner is of course preferred.
03-07-2013, 03:42 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
Call me stupid. I bought 14 cars over last 20 years or so. Some new, some used. Some used from a single owner, some from multiple, some even unknown. As much as I tried to guess every used car history and make "smart" moves, this did not work out statistically for me. My worst purchase reliability-wise was a BMW 540i bought within a warranty from a single owner who had babied it 
Over time I learned to trust my inspection of a car more than trying to guess what had or had not happened to it.
If the car is in a good shape and you did not identify any issues which you would consider a showstoppers go for it.
Over time I learned to trust my inspection of a car more than trying to guess what had or had not happened to it. If the car is in a good shape and you did not identify any issues which you would consider a showstoppers go for it.
03-07-2013, 09:02 AM
#11
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I didn't do a DME when I bought mine because I had no idea what that was to be honest with you. Thankfully, when I plugged my Durametric in I found zero over-revs in level 3-6 so I was relieved. I thought it was obvious that you should never drop a downshift from 5th to 2nd that would over-rev the motor past red line. When I taught my kids and my wife to drive a manual I didn't even explain the down shift in this detail because I thought it was pretty obvious. What idiot would do something like this....right?
It happens all the time. Look at some of the DME reports on this forum. The last thing you want is a motor that's been rattled to shiz so be sure to get a DME report.
BTW I would have thought that the PDK would not over-rev but I guess it could going down hill.
It happens all the time. Look at some of the DME reports on this forum. The last thing you want is a motor that's been rattled to shiz so be sure to get a DME report.
BTW I would have thought that the PDK would not over-rev but I guess it could going down hill.
03-07-2013, 10:56 AM
#12
Maybe a little concerned only in the fact that the dealer who leased it didnt buy it back. It seems like the well maintained used sell as quick as the new. No service records would concern me. Will DME show how many launches are performed? I am sure that information is in the "black box" somewhere.
03-07-2013, 12:03 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
I would say pass, there are plenty for sale. Is it CPO?? If not I would absolutely Pass. I would not buy any car that does not qualify for a CPO from a dealer unless it was due to age. Just me, but I do not buy Auction Cars, Period.
Keep searching, the right car is out there
Keep searching, the right car is out there
03-07-2013, 12:40 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I'll pass on it. It is a CPO, which gives me a lot of comfort, but I would have no service history at all. I hadn't thought about the fact that the leasing dealer would have first chance at it and should buy it if everything looked good. Oh well. If you have a 997.2 C2S with a PDK and full leather you want to unload - let me know.