ethranet

Advice on replacing two cars with one 997?

Hi everyone, my first post on this forum.

tl;dr for those who want to skip the extended version: I’m debating replacing my two cars (modified MX-5 and BMW 3 series) with a 997 of some sort. I love everything about the MX-5 except how noisy it is, I want a car that is closer to the noise levels and sound system quality of the BMW with the handling characteristics of the Mazda. I think the 911 may be that car, I tried a Cayman and it felt a little too claustrophobic inside. What do you think?

And more details, for those who are interested:
The cars:
2008 Mazda MX-5 modified with a supercharger, coil-overs, racing clutch, sway bars. The supercharger made it pretty fast, about 240hp at the wheels, which gives a better power to weight ratio than a base cayman (10lb : 1hp). This is my daily driver and favorite car to drive. I love the nimble handling, sharp steering, gearbox, rear visibility with the top down, and how easy it is to throttle steer the car during tight turns.

I don’t love the noise level. I can’t carry on a conversation at speed on the freeway without shouting, or take calls from the car at all. Putting the top up does not reduce the noise all that much either. I can only listen to music via earbuds, which means if someone else is in the car we can’t listen to music. (The stereo does work, but ambient noise is so loud that to hear music at all it has to be ear damagingly loud, and doesn’t even sound good.) A minor issue it that the seats can’t recline since there is a wall immediately behind them, which means my girlfriend can’t nap on road trips. When the top is up, it feels like I’m in a box.

The other car is a 2006 BMW 330i. It has sport suspension, but feels like a truck after driving the miata. The sound system is great, it is quiet so I can make calls while driving or carry on a conversation, and the seats recline all the way. I drive this car if I know I will need to make phone calls while driving or if it will be a long drive in stop and go traffic on the freeway in the middle of the day when I don’t want the top down anyway because the sun is too strong.

I'm interested in thoughts on this matter. I'm going to test drive a few 911s as soon as I get a chance. I'm looking in the used market from 2007 - 2009.

Vjgtrybno1

997.1 is known to be a little noisy at highway speeds. The 997 will probably feel a little bulky as compared to the miata and nimble compared to the 3 series. You need to drive a few and see how they stack up with your needs/expectations.

J. Kid

Welcome to Rennlist!

I agree with the whole reclining seat thing for road trip comfort. I had a Boxster and my wife did one and only road trip in it due to the upright seating position mandated by the firewall.

Your OP did not mention if you were considering a 997 Coupe or Cab.

From your description of your Miata, the 997 coupe will be much quieter. I can't speak for the 997 cab but I'm guessing that will be significantly quieter than your Miata since 997 cabs have a better insulated roof than a Miata.

997 Will NOT be as quiet as your 330i. For most of us on this board this is a good thing. I love the sounds my 997 makes and 80 percent of the time don't have music playing. If you are big into music when you drive this may be a negative for you.

How much quieter than a Miata and louder than a stock 3 series for your tastes is subjective. You really need to just go out and test drive. Since you seem to like your BMW but wish it handled better (and I'm guessing would like more power) I'd recommend test driving a 997 back to back with a M3. If you don't test drive both you may always wonder if you made the right decision.

Money Pit 951

As someone who's owned a turbo Miata, 3rd gen twin turbo RX7, AP2 S2000 and now a 997, I suspect you're not going to like the 997. Out of the lineup of cars that I've owned, it's honestly the least fun to drive around town and on back roads. It gives the feeling of a very heavy planted car and it's almost impossible to make the car lose it's composure at 'normal' speeds. You won't get the joy of getting the car a little lose in the corners with a 997. That said, the great fun is the power. It's got a great motor, a very nice torque curve, and a good sound when you get on it.
It's certainly the most quiet and civilized out of the other three if that's what you're looking for. Would be interested to see what you think after driving one.

IslandS52

I replaced 2 for 1. I had a heavily modded 2002 BMW MCoupe and a 2001 M5. First the coupe was sold when my daughter hit preschool age. I needed 4 seats, and the 997 was more useable and comfortable than I expected so I decided to sell the M5 soon after. It feeds my sports car bug, while at the same time was more fun to drive and practical enough to replace an M5. I can miss the BMWs sometimes but it's never from behind the wheel of my Carrera.

eroy2

I've owned a 1999 miata, 2007 rs4 and now a 2005 997. The only cars right now to compare to the miata is the genesis coupe or the Subaru/scion biz/fr-s in terms of fun with a little more refinement. As stated the 997 drones a bit at highway speeds and does feel a little large. Not much will compare to the fun of the miata, still miss mine desperately. If you want quiet and reclining seats for road trips and space, stay with the BMW or find an S4. For me the 997 was a dream and can't compare to my other cars at all. Good luck with your search and I hope you find the right solution or you.

Eric

USMC_DS1

I went from a supercharged '98 E36 M3 cab(360hp) to an '08 C2S coupe(355hp). Note that although my old M3 had more HP there was no comparison with how Porsche puts down power. The Carrera wins hands down.

I really liked how "tossible" the older M3's was and could no find a viable replacement for 10 years... I have to agree with your comments re the BMW... as they have gotten very heavy and sluggish as it pertains to handling vs. the old E36 models and especially the 911's. I've test driven several E46 and E92 M3's over the years as potential replacements for my older M3 but none of them sparked my interest. The only thing that got me excited were the 997's.

Regarding noise level: I miss my old cab every so often but the coupe is so much better. I've held conference calls from inside the 997... near impossible/rude to make a call from my prior M3 cab. Now if you're on a rough road the stiff Carrera chassis will convey all the rumble into the cabin. Re long trips: 100-200 mile are very comfortable for my wife. The sport adaptive seats hug the driver and passenger just right. I often find her sleeping on our drives btw Austin and College Station, TX.

Test drive a few different cars but you may be on the right track with a 997.

Edgy01

Drive a bunch of very different models of the 997 to be sure of what you are seeking. The range of differences within the 997 are truly vast. Simple options can make a significant difference. Also, the age of the tires can turn you off of what could have been the car for you (they are noisier and handle differently).

ethranet

Wow, what a great forum! I was not expecting so many useful responses and so quickly! As a few of you have said, I definitely need to do some test drives to determine for myself and as soon as I find time to do so I will post a followup of my thoughts. Also, I'm probably looking at a coupe, not a cab.

A couple questions in response to posts:

By heavy/planted are you referring more to a massive amount of grip, or an unwillingness to turn in quickly/make quick darting movements?


That's definitely something I'm worried about, if I did get a 911 I would probably hold on to the miata for a few months after to make sure I was ok with giving it up. If I sell it I won't get the money out of it that I put into modding it anyway.

What simple options would you say make the most difference that I need to be aware of. I've heard 4wd vs 2 will affect the steering feel, are you talking about wheel size or PASM vs standard suspension? Also, should I gauge the age of the tires simply by tread wear, or does it also have to do with the rubber losing some of it's springiness through exposure to the air and heat over time?

Thank you everyone again for your responses, every single one of them is extremely informative!

eroy2

The 997 has an incredibly stiff chassis. By jacking from the rear suspension, the front is jacked high enough to put a jack stand under it. Adding PASM made it so that I couldn't think because my brain kept getting jiggled around on city roads. Mind you putting it in sport and taking off the PASM . So the Sport Chrono package will definitely affect the car. The tire age is both in terms actual age and wear degradation as well as brand/model. Put it this way, your rear tires will be around 295mm wide, expect a lot of tire hitting a lot of road. Add a stiff chassis, you get a little more road noise.

PTParks

Seriously? Out of all those cars you listed which one would by be willing to trade your current 997 back in for? The fact that the car does stay planted, doesn't do anything stupid unless the driver forces the issue, and is dependable to boot is exactly why I love my '09 Carrera S. It is the perfect daily driver.

gonz911

Not sure what the fuss is about with the 997 and driving - I love this car.

I've owned numerous Audi (A4, S4, A6) VWs, E46 M3 'Vert Supercharged by ESS Tuning, and two prior 911 models (heavily modded '78 SC Euro, and 996). The 997 feels very planted although it got better with coil overs and some good alignment and corner balancing. It's my daily driver and in a year I put right under 20k miles on it.

The power was less than what I was used to, but the drive and feel of this car always brings a smile to my face. I'm saying this coming from my M3 which had 428 WHP and 320 WTQ, and with a pretty good suspension setup (KWv2, Eibach f/r sways, ARCA, plates) and an overall beast. I prefer my 997 hands down although I do plan on boosting it with a TPC turbo - what can I say other than boost is addicting.

To date the car has been very reliable as a daily driver although I plan after the first of next year picking up the new Macan (Porsche's mini SUV) or a CPO Cayenne Hybrid once she's boosted.

Para82

The 997S is my daily driver. I use it to make frequent trips to work and also interstate driving between Florida and Virginia. Always feels comfortable for long road trips. Plenty of luggage space. When you want to have fun the power is there and it's a race-car on tap. Subtle enough to drive to the grocery store, elegant enough to drive to the 5 star restaurant on a date. Jack of all trades.

Two options you may want to require: Full Leather (makes a big difference in the luxury factor, and Adaptive Sport Seats - incredible seats.

Two other very nice options to set you apart: PSE - Porsche Sport Exhaust and Ceramic Brakes (PCCB's.)

All these options are very heavy costs when buying new -( PCCB's alone are over 8k). But for the used market - you will pretty much gain these options at very little extra cost vs. a used 911 without.

Enjoy and good choice.

ethranet

Alright, I finally got to do a test drive, albeit a short one, in a 997.2 Carrera S. Black with black interior, Sport Chrono, manual, PCM, PASM. Short story is, initial impression was it didn't have the same fun factor as the MX-5, but I want to find a rental for a day somewhere so I can have more time to learn the car. Anyone know a good rental place in Los Angeles?

Long story follows:

To reiterate, my MX-5 has quite a few mods, supercharger, Ohlin DFV coil-overs, front/rear sway bars, performance clutch. It has approx 240 HP at the wheels, and peak torque of 210 lb/ft. I also have a BMW 3 series, which is nice, has a nice stereo, but kind of feels like a truck next to the Mazda.

The Carrera felt really good, extremely solid, very stable, planted, etc. It's definitely faster than the Mazda, although not the emphatic difference I expected. Getting more accustomed to the gear range would make a difference here though as I'm used to keeping the Mazda in the power band.

I may get some flames here. My overwhelming impression was that it wasn't as fun as the Mazda. Quick movements like a sudden lane change felt different, maybe the turn-in isn't as rapid or something. Although nimble, it didn't have the darting feel I'm used to and felt not quite as fleet of foot. The turning circle is comparable though so perhaps much of this is due to the heavier steering feel and wider tires? I hate to say this, but I think the steering and shifter feel is better on the MX-5, it's hard for me to believe but that was my impression. The Carrera shifter has much more resistance, and the steering seemed to have less feedback, which is hard for me to believe. Perhaps the MX-5 is feeding back unnecessary information?

The Carrera is an excellent car, but it didn't put the immediate smile on my face that the Mazda did. I remember clearly on my initial drive in the MX-5, going over a bump and feeling the little twitch in the steering wheel. It felt like it was cheerfully proclaiming, "There's a bump down here!" and right then I knew I would buy the car.

It definitely didn't help that the test drive was short, all straight lines, and with a sales man sitting next me.

The Bose stereo is lightyears ahead of the Mazda's, but disappointing overall. The midrange was lacking. The engine is music enough when blasting through a mountain pass, but when sitting in traffic or on a long road trip I need a little music. I'll do more research on this forum to see what people are doing about the stereo in the car. I'd prefer not to go the headphone route, as that's what I currently do in the MX-5.

I'm going to try to find a rental so I can drive the car around for a day or two. I really wanted the 997 to be the car for me and I'm not ready to give up on it yet. Maybe I just need more seat time. It may be hard to find a manual transmission rental though. Anyone know of a good place in the Los Angeles area?

Para82

For what it's worth my initial impression of the 997 first test drive was not good. I drove a silver 997S on a highway with a salesman, straight lines, for 7 minutes.

Then I did a second test drive at a different dealership with a sexier color (seal grey) and on backroads. I was hooked after 2 turns and understood the fuss.