Drove a brand new 991S and 997GTS
06-06-2012, 09:30 PM
#32
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It's very, very, hard for me to believe that Porsche would say the part about the Boxster not being consistent with their heritage as it has been repeatedly touted as a descendant of the 550 Spyder ever since it was first introduced. I think something was lost in translation.... 
06-06-2012, 10:00 PM
#33
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When I was first introduced to Porsche back in the 80's my impressions were that they were a builder of high end, reliable sports cars. They weren't luxurious, they weren't exotic but they were expensive enough that they remained exclusive and they offered high performance.
If you look at what Porsche is offering today, especially when focusing on the Cayenne, Panamera, Cajun and partially the 911 it is hard to say that any of these follow what Porsche used to do.
But does that really matter? Does that dilute their true sports cars? Does anyone doubt that a GT3 RS is a true sports car? They still know how to make an absolutely amazing sports car that will leave you speechless when you corner at speeds you thought impossible with complete confidence. As long as they continue to make those cars I could care less about the other cool cars/suv's they produce.
If you look at what Porsche is offering today, especially when focusing on the Cayenne, Panamera, Cajun and partially the 911 it is hard to say that any of these follow what Porsche used to do.
But does that really matter? Does that dilute their true sports cars? Does anyone doubt that a GT3 RS is a true sports car? They still know how to make an absolutely amazing sports car that will leave you speechless when you corner at speeds you thought impossible with complete confidence. As long as they continue to make those cars I could care less about the other cool cars/suv's they produce.
06-06-2012, 10:12 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
When I was first introduced to Porsche back in the 80's my impressions were that they were a builder of high end, reliable sports cars. They weren't luxurious, they weren't exotic but they were expensive enough that they remained exclusive and they offered high performance.
If you look at what Porsche is offering today, especially when focusing on the Cayenne, Panamera, Cajun and partially the 911 it is hard to say that any of these follow what Porsche used to do.
But does that really matter? Does that dilute their true sports cars? Does anyone doubt that a GT3 RS is a true sports car? They still know how to make an absolutely amazing sports car that will leave you speechless when you corner at speeds you thought impossible with complete confidence. As long as they continue to make those cars I could care less about the other cool cars/suv's they produce.
If you look at what Porsche is offering today, especially when focusing on the Cayenne, Panamera, Cajun and partially the 911 it is hard to say that any of these follow what Porsche used to do.
But does that really matter? Does that dilute their true sports cars? Does anyone doubt that a GT3 RS is a true sports car? They still know how to make an absolutely amazing sports car that will leave you speechless when you corner at speeds you thought impossible with complete confidence. As long as they continue to make those cars I could care less about the other cool cars/suv's they produce.
06-06-2012, 11:52 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
BTW,speaking of Porsche making the Cayenne,please let me know when you find an SUV that can do 0-60 mph in 4.0 s like the Cayenne Turbo S can and that can handle just like a sports car.
And please don't tell me about the SRT8,Dodge Ram etc,that once they get to that speed and the first turn comes....well you get the picture....
And if you don't...please enjoy:
And please don't tell me about the SRT8,Dodge Ram etc,that once they get to that speed and the first turn comes....well you get the picture....
And if you don't...please enjoy:
06-07-2012, 01:46 AM
#36
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LMFAO! That made my day.
For me though, instead of looking to the future when I buy my next porsche (except maybe a newer 997), I'll go back and pick some older classics that I enjoyed when I was a kid, and then I won't have to worry about the nanny models coming out!
Also, BMW's way ahead in making cars that I could care less about, it wasn't that long ago that I really liked the brand, now I'm not so sure. Can't wait for Porsche's "5 series touring" (hmm there doesn't seem to be a vomit icon...)
For me though, instead of looking to the future when I buy my next porsche (except maybe a newer 997), I'll go back and pick some older classics that I enjoyed when I was a kid, and then I won't have to worry about the nanny models coming out!
Also, BMW's way ahead in making cars that I could care less about, it wasn't that long ago that I really liked the brand, now I'm not so sure. Can't wait for Porsche's "5 series touring" (hmm there doesn't seem to be a vomit icon...)
06-07-2012, 11:30 AM
#37
In my business opinion.. It's all about demographics..
Last few years, Porsche has been repositioning the 911 to more then there male 40+ clientele.. Look at the commercials lately.. That a 911 should be used as a daily driver.. Shopping.. Gardening..kids..
With 35,000 delivered on avg.. Per year..They have converted the 991 to a gentile sports car that has sport, luxury, comfort and appeal to a whole new "whack" of people..
Want a killer machine ..?....Wait for the GTS 991..I'll put money down that this model will quiet the Sedan cracks.. And not true sports Car.. Which in its present iteration ...is false.. The 991 is an awesome machine.. And will get a whole lot nastier..
Last few years, Porsche has been repositioning the 911 to more then there male 40+ clientele.. Look at the commercials lately.. That a 911 should be used as a daily driver.. Shopping.. Gardening..kids..
With 35,000 delivered on avg.. Per year..They have converted the 991 to a gentile sports car that has sport, luxury, comfort and appeal to a whole new "whack" of people..
Want a killer machine ..?....Wait for the GTS 991..I'll put money down that this model will quiet the Sedan cracks.. And not true sports Car.. Which in its present iteration ...is false.. The 991 is an awesome machine.. And will get a whole lot nastier..
06-07-2012, 12:13 PM
#38
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In my business opinion.. It's all about demographics..
Last few years, Porsche has been repositioning the 911 to more then there male 40+ clientele.. Look at the commercials lately.. That a 911 should be used as a daily driver.. Shopping.. Gardening..kids..
With 35,000 delivered on avg.. Per year..They have converted the 991 to a gentile sports car that has sport, luxury, comfort and appeal to a whole new "whack" of people..
Want a killer machine ..?....Wait for the GTS 991..I'll put money down that this model will quiet the Sedan cracks.. And not true sports Car.. Which in its present iteration ...is false.. The 991 is an awesome machine.. And will get a whole lot nastier..
Last few years, Porsche has been repositioning the 911 to more then there male 40+ clientele.. Look at the commercials lately.. That a 911 should be used as a daily driver.. Shopping.. Gardening..kids..
With 35,000 delivered on avg.. Per year..They have converted the 991 to a gentile sports car that has sport, luxury, comfort and appeal to a whole new "whack" of people..
Want a killer machine ..?....Wait for the GTS 991..I'll put money down that this model will quiet the Sedan cracks.. And not true sports Car.. Which in its present iteration ...is false.. The 991 is an awesome machine.. And will get a whole lot nastier..
Porsche as a business has the goal of turning a profit. With Gov't restrictions, R&D costs have risen making it more difficult for all manufacturers to stay profitable. The Avg age buyer of todays Porsche is dropping, and new generations have different needs. How many Purists care about Bluetooth and ventilated seats? Those things are not as important to that group as performance. Ask young people whats important to them, ipod integration, bluetooth, voice control. Young people in today's tech world will be buying these cars wanting to take them to club and meet a few ladies probably not go to the track and compare times. The 991 GT3 will be the absolute sports car for the discriminating few. I just ordered a 991 S for my DD. I appreciate the new comforts it offers. I feel I get the best of both worlds, a fast and comfortable car that my wife can drive if she chooses. If I win the lotto I will buy a GT3 RS and call it a day. I love Porsche...always have and I'm sure they will always produce something I am proud to own. All IMO of course
06-07-2012, 01:38 PM
#39
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Funny you mention that. I'm here in S. Florida, where one tends to see more Porsches on the road year-round than in colder climes, but until three days ago I hadn't seen a single 991 on the road. Finally I spotted one. It still had the paper licence tag, so <30 days from purchase. I couldn't see the driver because it had nearly-black tinted windows, but it so happened the car turned in to the same place as I was going, so I parked nearby. It was a woman driving it, with her adolescent daughter as passenger. I smiled and admired the car, noting before the owner shut the door that it was an automatic. She was late forties, wearing the obligatory diamond-bezel Rolex and a substantial diamond tennis bracelet on her wrist, and an enormous diamond wedding set on her finger. As we spoke I could see she'd had her nose, eyes and chin done, along with dermal filler for her lips. When I asked how she liked the car she replied, "You know, my husband had me test-drive one a couple years ago and I couldn't stand it, it was like driving a truck. But I was really pleasantly surprised this time, they made it so much softer and quieter now. It's just as comfortable as my Mercedes was!"
06-07-2012, 02:21 PM
#40
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Independent of all the business reasons, underlying philosophies. Ignoring styling, size increase, cost, and even ignoring performance. . . . looking only at the driving experience b/t the 997 and 991, the 997 is the true driver's machine.
Here was my review:
Here was my review:
I've been around porsches for a bit, and have been mostly track focused. But my interests have changed and I wanted a modern sports car for the daily commute, with an occasional track day thrown in. I thought the 991 would be perfect for me.
It isn't.
I drove a PDK sport chrono and found it drab. Fast, great sounding, great full leather interior, sexier, more modern curves (IMO), and exceptional rigidity and build quality. But, it failed to delver viscerally or emotionally.
I am waiting on the GT3 to see if that might scratch that itch. I thought the steering, while accurate, was no longer organic, it was lifeless. The front didn't move around at all. I think Stuttgart engineered the 911 out of the 991. The only time you could tell that it was a 911, was under hamfisted driving, which I don't want to have to do to be reminded I'm in a 911.
I think Porsche applied mechanical and to a large part electronic wizardry to zap the 911 out of the 991.
I knew when Clarkson said he liked the 991, it was a warning shot that the 911 might. . . just. . . be . . . dead.
OK, I won't be that dramatic. I still have faith that Stuttgart will address the early cars shortcomings in newer releases. But for now I'm gonna look at the 997 GTS.
I'm not hating on the 991 owners, it's a great car judged as a sports car. But as a 911 it falls short.
IMHO.
It isn't.
I drove a PDK sport chrono and found it drab. Fast, great sounding, great full leather interior, sexier, more modern curves (IMO), and exceptional rigidity and build quality. But, it failed to delver viscerally or emotionally.
I am waiting on the GT3 to see if that might scratch that itch. I thought the steering, while accurate, was no longer organic, it was lifeless. The front didn't move around at all. I think Stuttgart engineered the 911 out of the 991. The only time you could tell that it was a 911, was under hamfisted driving, which I don't want to have to do to be reminded I'm in a 911.
I think Porsche applied mechanical and to a large part electronic wizardry to zap the 911 out of the 991.
I knew when Clarkson said he liked the 991, it was a warning shot that the 911 might. . . just. . . be . . . dead.
OK, I won't be that dramatic. I still have faith that Stuttgart will address the early cars shortcomings in newer releases. But for now I'm gonna look at the 997 GTS.
I'm not hating on the 991 owners, it's a great car judged as a sports car. But as a 911 it falls short.
IMHO.
06-07-2012, 03:10 PM
#41
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The 991 addresses the things I thought I dislike on the 997. Ride comfort, tire noise, exhaust loudness and so on. After 200 km with the 991 it just left me cold and so much more in love with my 997.2. I really like the idea of not "having" to "update" my car with the 991
06-07-2012, 05:27 PM
#42
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To begin with, let me state that I'm not a purist in any sense of the word, but not a casual owner either. Over the years, I've had the pleasure and good fortune of owning a number of Porsches, including six 911's (a '72, '84 turbo look, '95 Carrea, '97 TT, '99 Carrera, '01 TT) plus a couple of Boxsters, a 914 and a 928 S4 for good measure. Took a seven-year sabbatical from the mark before jumping back into the Porsche fold three months ago when I leased a 991s.
I enjoyed each and every one of those cars, from my lowly 914 to the twin turbos but the 991 is the best Porsche and the best 911 I've ever owned, period. Coming from an E55 and CLS55 AMG, it drives nothing like a Benz, believe me.
I could have picked up a CPO'd 4,000 mile 09 TT cab for less money than the 991, but like Porsche, I decided to move on. I'm glad I did. Others may not feel the love, and that's OK with me. Enjoy your 911, whatever generation you have.
By the way, when my lease is up, you can bet you'll find me in the next 911.
I enjoyed each and every one of those cars, from my lowly 914 to the twin turbos but the 991 is the best Porsche and the best 911 I've ever owned, period. Coming from an E55 and CLS55 AMG, it drives nothing like a Benz, believe me.
I could have picked up a CPO'd 4,000 mile 09 TT cab for less money than the 991, but like Porsche, I decided to move on. I'm glad I did. Others may not feel the love, and that's OK with me. Enjoy your 911, whatever generation you have.
By the way, when my lease is up, you can bet you'll find me in the next 911.
06-07-2012, 05:41 PM
#43
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06-07-2012, 05:56 PM
#44
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The 991 addresses the things I thought I dislike on the 997. Ride comfort, tire noise, exhaust loudness and so on. After 200 km with the 991 it just left me cold and so much more in love with my 997.2. I really like the idea of not "having" to "update" my car with the 991
But to reiterate, the foregoing applies to true and knowledgeable afficionados. Status-seeking dilettantes still feel an organic (as in, related to their organ
) sense of inadequacy unless they're seen driving the latest model, and will argue most vehemently that theirs is bigger---ah, better (Well, in this case, the 991 at least is really bigger )That is at least one reason why a company who makes expensive cars is compelled to change them every few years in such a way as to make each new generation instantly differentiable to even the most clueless onlookers; and why makers of high-performance cars constantly are adding new technology such that even an inexperienced driver can push it hard without fear of it getting away from him.
06-07-2012, 08:11 PM
#45
Drifting
Just some more guys who cant afford the 991....
