if you do have a budget for 997.2 - do not even think twice. just get it. you will have some warranty left and a lot of things are simply way better engineered in those cars.

 

Thanks.... so besides better IMS bearing and PCM 3 and DFI (which engine doesn't sound as good apparently) what would be noticiable and driving fun enhancing improvements in the 997.2? I mean I care more about it feeling like a race car and pulling hard than a better pcm. Does that make sense?

 

if you want what feels like a race car - you need to shop for a gt3 car. 997.2 is a very good street car, it has better electronics, it is comfortable and engine has more torque and it is nice on a street.

if you need a car for a track it is a whole different deal, you need cheapest donor car you can find and then it is all about rebuilds. stock gt3 offers a good compromise but on a street 997.2 engine pulls stronger in the lower rpm band than a gt3 car and will be more fuel efficient. to 'feel like a race' you need to set it straight from the beginning - will you drive it on a track a lot or not. all those cars have 'racy' street feel, but if it will stay on the street mostly, like, 80% street - do not waste money on gt3 or gt3 rs. 997.2 is all you will need, if you can afford base - then base, if you can get 3.8L - get 3.8L as it has a bit more power.

 

Thanks again utkinpol. You're helping narrow it down for me. I should have clarified- this car will be used 95% street. I did not realize until today that the .2 has more torque than a .1 "S". This has become very interesting. After all though... I think the 05 with an updated IMS may be the best "value" for my intentions except for resale. I see the 07 and 09 having easier resale.

 

Is it indisputably true that the 997.1 non "S" is torquey-er than a .2 "S"?

 

huh? non-S 997.2 has almost same power as 997.1 'S'. look it up but even better - just go to any dealer and drive both and make your own decision based on what you feel.

 

so unfortunately I live in Sarasota, FL and the crowd here does not believe in stick shifts. Depressing, at least to me. I did drive a 6-speed 997 S yesterday, I've owned a 997.1 non S six speed, have a 993 C2S with 17k miles (irrelevant to this conv) and I did test drive a 997.2 non S 6 speed albeit was 7 months ago. so, the point is all I have is pdk to compare with and while I respect pdk I have no interest in owning one. I would buy a 6 speed with sports chrono only. Period.

 

I saw in one of your earlier posts that the torque curve power delievery can be fixed with an ecu flast on the 997.1 S

 

And that has to be your cue to walk away. If the RMS has already been done then it will probably go again (ask me how I know) and if the RMS is bad then the IMS is quite likely to go as well (ask me how I know).

You would be crazy (IMO) to even consider this car. There are a lot of cars out there to choose from - why choose one that you already know has issues.

It's all about your personal tolerance for risk. I can only talk about mine.

 

it is different issue whatsoever.

any stock M96/M97 has a 'drop' in the area of 5K-5.5k rpm. the 'fix' with most aftermarket ECU flash adds a lot of power and torque where you need it on the track - from 4500rpm up to 7K rpm.

on a street you want torque where you use it most - from 2.5K rpm to 5K rpm. all stock 997.2 cars are tuned well for that rpm band and it feels when you test them.
my car pulls very nicely after 5K rpm and does not have any 'dive' - it just pulls there but in the lower band it is not nearly as strong as any DFI motor. all gt3 motors are also tuned to 'deliver' pretty much after 5K rpm and that is why some folks who drive 997.2 S cars feel surprised to find that 997.1 gt3 car that has more HP on paper does not feel same 'strong'. those are just different cars.

 

Utkinpol - you're religiously pimping the.2, you own one, so you should be biased...

We've also read where the .1 may be better as a collectable/keepsake, as it ISNT DFI, and is the last p-car that isnt

Now, you speak of "better electronics" - just what the hell does that even mean, would love for you to elaborate

To the OP, don't let these guys run you off chasing something you may never find. Go to the 996 board and get some advice as well, or the GT3/RS board - great info there, and they truly have the best motors, the mezger

 

i do not own 997.2 but i know their schematics by now.
'better' means better. faster ECU, PCM3, sensors, better programmed ABS.
better means better - like a i7 intel processor is better than an old pentium one.

 

More please.

Processor will continue to improve, which we notice more in a laptop for instance. What does it bring to the driving experience? Is it noticeable, or just a processor upgrade (old processors not available, a natural progression)

Can you elaborate on faster ECU? and what's a better programmed ABS? Not busting ***** now, just curious if these things are better (noticeable) or just updated

 

So do we all agree that the 2005 is no different than the 2007 with an IMS update done to the 05? We'll set aside the DFI debate for now....

Anyone disagree that with a IMS update 05 is just as "risky" as 07 as long as some type of warranty is obtained?

 

probability of failure and 'risk' is a difficult thnig to speculate about.

ims bearing is only item imho that can die on a street at low RPMs.
to break off rods or brake rod bolts you need to rev engine high and do some events on regular basis. to get a crack on 6th cylinder imho you need to have a lot of damaged karma, it does not happen often. anything else is managable and should not result in a catastrophic failure from street driving.

so if you wany to save money i think after new ims bearing installed by a good installer this '05 engine should live long happy life unless an idiot tech will not damage ims bearing during install hammering it in.

so decide what is best for you. '05 car should be under of in lower $40K. '09 car will be way higher than that. all i can say - do not hurry, go to dealers and test drive those cars to get a very good idea of how do they differ.