Alan C.

A dealer told me that 3 panels was the max for repaint to qualify for CPO. I agree with others, if the job is done right I might not care. I'd want before and after photos. I had my front end repainted for rock chips and took before and after photos at the shop.

Dutchie in NC

I know have all the service details/invoices for the car... looks like all the service was done on the car at a P-car dealership in Pasadena. I also have the invoice from the local shop who did the body work on the repairs. From reading the invoice it looks like they did work on the Pillar Hinge (?), the right rocker panel, the left and right Quarter Panel, and rear bumper... for a total of about $2,400.

Marine Blue

The work you note sounds more serious than just a scratch. Repair/Paintwork to a pillar hinge and rocker panel sounds like a bigger impact. I personally would pass on it unless the repairs are undetectable and the car comes with a hefty price reduction.

Last year I was searching for a CPO'ed MB for my parents and this is what the dealers told me. Typically when a car was a lease return the dealer had the first crack at purchasing it from MB to sell on their lot. Before buying a car they would inspect it to determine if it met their expectations and they would also determine if it is eligible for CPO. They generally would pass on cars that weren't up to par mechanically and cosmetically for CPO. Of course the dealer may also pass on the car if they already have too many of that particular model on their lot. Cars on their lot that couldn't be CPO'ed had too many miles or were cosmetically below average and most of these cars were trade in from what I could tell.

I honestly don't know if Porsche follows the same procedure but assuming they do there may potentially be other reasons why the car was sent for auction.

As others have noted, due diligence is required when buying used.

Macster

I agree with others. That dollar amount seems light...

Left and right quarter panel? Rear bumper? Sounds like the car might have gotten tapped in the rear.

Does the invoice show any time/charge for putting the car on a Celette Bench and checking the car's various hard points for position?

About the only way I'd go forward on that car would be to have another body shop check the car out one that has a good rep for good work on these cars and one that would give me an honest assessment of the car.

Also, I'd like the car put on a Porsche alignment rack and the alignment checked to make sure it is ok (or not too far out) and the adjustments are not all used up in one or the other direction to compensate for a twisted tub.

Even then...

The problem is the damage may have been minor, paint scratches, or something similar and painting is that was needed.

But sans any definite proof of what was done... the car's a risk.

Sincerely,

Macster.

simsgw

I think the other responses are paranoid beyond belief. Always presuming the appearance of the car is good. If it presents well, that cost is so trivial when repairing Porsche body work that the damage could not have been more than scrapes and bruises from mishandling of the tie-down chains or something like that. Even supposing the dealer is lying about the cause, you couldn't do that small amount of damage in a rear-end collision unless it was a golf cart backing into you in a parking lot.

We had our NSX keyed and the estimates began climbing from the day the first person looked at it. They started at about half that price, but the person saying so had good reason to lowball it, wishing to deflect Cindy's anger. The second expert rinsed it first and the estimate from a quick walk-around grew to $3,000 immediately. The real cost came in at $15,000-something with the body shop owner screaming about losing money the entire time. (He was a friend and kept giving in to our insurance company, but vocally.)

I don't say the OP shouldn't exercise due diligence about a PPI, and in this case that might properly include a visit by a body shop's expert appraiser, but for God's sake, he's not buying a classic Ferrari GTO for a million sweet. It's a production Porsche and he wants it to drive, not frame.

Gary

Marine Blue

Gary I agree that the responses (including mine) may be paranoid but why would you buy a car with a story when there are plenty of other examples around without stories? Besides if you want the added benefit of CPO this car isn't eligible. So why not wait and buy a better example?

Neotorque

+1.

simsgw

To buy the newest Porsche I could afford. That's the simple reason, leaving out alternative uses for the five or ten thousand the person will save who buys this example. There's always a reason a car sells used for the price it brings. Great color, lousy color, low miles, high miles, what have you. The trick is to find the combination of things that matter to you in a car with drawbacks that only matter to the other half of the market. If you happen to love metallic magenta, you'll be thrilled to learn that most of the market does not, so if you find a car in your favorite color you'll get it at a great price. If you convince yourself that anything and everything matters to you, and especially if you substitute "somebody might care when I sell it" for your own taste, then the price you pay for used cars will be a lot higher.

Incidentally, I might not be so cynical as to suggest that all used cars have stories and we just don't know them for some we consider, but it's certainly true that most used cars have been used and some of that use inevitably would disturb us if we knew about it. In fact, quite a few new cars have had a checkered history just getting to the dealer. Repairing shipping damage is a routine business cost and certifying the shops to be used for this purpose is all part of importing cars.

Gary

Dutchie in NC

again thanks for all your input. I'm on my way to go and see the car. hopefully it will check out fine.

In the end, if the car looks good, I will have to do a PPI and negotiate the price. Car had some damage, so price will have to reflect that. If I can get a 2007 S that stickered for 93+k for 45 or 46 I think I will have a god deal.

I will keep you posted... By the way, negotiate price before it after PPI?

Neotorque

Strictly my opinion only, but I'd negotiate to a price you're comfortable with before the PPI, so you can use that as a jumping off point to negotiate downward if the PPI kicks back any additional issues. Otherwise, you'd be starting those negotiations from the asking price.

Alan Smithee

I think they are right on. Yes, you want to buy the newest Porsche you can afford - but you also want the best newest Porsche you can afford. I would prefer to have a pristine, 1-owner, no-stories, CPO non-S for this price, rather than an S with the only known history being half of the car was repaired/repainted at an unknown shop. And chances that the repair was done to an extraordinarily high standard are minimal, given every dealers' objective to maximize profit.

That a So Cal dealer would wholesale a good 997 rather than sell it at retail as a CPO is as big a red flag as the damage in transit. Dealer inventory is thin right now as we transition from 987/997 to 981/991 - a good 997 should be a welcome addition to a dealership, not something to get rid of at dealer auction.

Skibum

+1

simsgw

Well, you're entitled to your own buying practices of course, but 'best' is a relative term. As I said, if you love metallic magenta and crushed velvet upholstery then a paint-to-order example from Porsche is going to delight you while most of the market is going to down price it, figuring the cost of a re-upholstery and re-paint job in the deal. [As a more closely related example, some people show up at the track with blue tape on every forward facing surface. Some even buy these shrink-wrap coatings. I couldn't be bothered with either myself, considering the occasional rock chip to be a badge of honor for a sports car. Criteria for 'best' vary all over the map.]

I disagree with your reasons on a couple of counts. First, the repair work. We're talking about Porsche dealers here, not a third-party used-car lot. At this level, the loss of a car is still just "a unit" in bookkeeping terms, but it's a pretty expensive unit indeed, so the business practices reflect that unit value. Body shops are chosen around the country to be the designated repair centers for 'units' damaged in shipping and they have long-term contracts. Dealers don't use anyone else for a job like this. They are explicitly chosen for their background in the models being imported and their skill in making repairs that will not deter the sale of a car as new that may go for a quarter million and up.

Sophomoric cynicism has its place, but not in business decisions. Let's be realistic. People who do that sort of work don't keep a summer intern on hand to deal with a car because it 'only' sold for $100k. They may take time for an extra color-sanding of a Carrera GT that a simple Carrera won't get, but that's about it. They are journeymen in their field, and they do the same quality work on all cars that got them the contract. Some of them are Master-rated in the old-fashioned sense of that term. One of them we used was well known clear out to St Louis. They may not be professionals in the formal sense that many of us mean that term, but they take a great deal of pride in their reputations.

Normally, someone who does paintwork for a living can spot a repaired body panel from across the street, but the saying goes that a good job is one they can't spot without walking up to the car and touching it. That conveys the spirit of the work those 're-work' shops are chosen for being able to do. Could this dealer be a scumbucket who slapped on some Bondo and used a spray can from Walmart? Conceivably, but it isn't the safe way to bet. You check the car and include a paint check in the PPI, sure, but you don't start out assuming the dealer is a crook.

As for the car being wholesaled, you're reading way too much into that. Most cars go into auction before being resold. This car was a lease car and almost certainly was treated that way. When it comes off lease, the car belongs to PCNA's leasing arm, not the dealer. The choice is theirs. They are hardly in a position to go flying around the country inspecting and appraising every unit that comes off lease. They might be allowing top-line dealers to make an extra profit by keeping the cherries they choose from their local area, but I wouldn't count on it. And I certainly wouldn't be afraid to own a car just because a dealer in Southern California didn't consider it one of those cherries. This is a 'hot' market out here and with no sign of shortages I've noticed. If there is a shortage of 997's that's all the more reason PCNA would insist on the car going to auction.

The only sure way to get the value of a car they own is to offer it for sale to all their dealers, without giving precedence to the one to whom the person returned it. I cannot assert it, because I have no inside knowledge, but that's sure the way I'd run my business if I were PCNA Leasing.

Gary

dan212

Dealers by inventory at auction all the time. Vehicle comes off lease and I expect it to go straight to auction since it was the bank or finance company (even on a lease) who actually owned it.

I got my GT3 from a dealer in Ohio. The car was originated in Florida but they knew a nice 996/GT3 would look and sell well and bought it at auction. They were quite open about that. But I got it CPO which was a good thing since they jump started it in the showroom, reversed the polarity and damaged but didn't obliterate the DME such that it was not immediately apparent until I took it on the track two weeks later. DME's are expensive without warranty.

I can understand the lack of CPO. Thats from Porsche USA, But then this dealer should at least offer some kind of warranty from of their own for at least some period of time.

I know the car is pretty. But.....

If they won't at least offer a their own dealer local warranty for 12, 6 or even just 3 months - RUN..

Alan Smithee

Apparently your experience with car dealers and 'authorized' body shops, regardless of marque, is very, very different from mine.

And my understanding regarding lease returns to PFS is exactly as described by Marine Blue earlier in the thread.