Alan Smithee

The thread is called "PDK vs Manual", and the OP asked for comparisons in a public forum. If you or anybody else don't like to hear the 'manual' side of the discussion, feel free to skip over those posts.

Personally, I jumped in when BS claims were being made regarding the PDK's performance advantages. Funny that the last few posts from PDK owners bring up one of my criticisms from pages back regarding its programming default to fuel economy (this from a "performance" transmission), with one of the responses to my post being that I had obviously not driven a car with PDK.

Mike in CA

There has been no BS, Alan. There are objective numbers and test results that prove the point. The only counter to those numbers has been that "you can't feel the difference anyway", a pretty silly claim when you consider that a GTS is objectively only .1 of a second quicker than an S, yet is universally acclaimed as "feeling" so much faster. Again, whether the speed differential is important to you is personal preference, but it can't be denied and isn't BS.

BTW, the fact that PDK starts in economy mode is as relevant to it's status as a performance transmission as the fact that a MT starts in neutral. We all know that PDK defaults to economy mode to get better MPG ratings for Porsche. When desired, it is as easy to select it's performance modes as it is for you to press in on the clutch.

tbrom

Alan, I wasn't directing my comment to you - but to the guy I quoted which was out of place imho. However, I will say if you read past the PDK vs MT intro and read the OP's post he clearly states what this thread was meant to be and it really doesn't include a bunch of rhetoric about which one is better - but rather what the experiences are from those that have PDKs. So it is supposed to be fairly specific and narrow in scope. Just sayin...

JamesT7

Alan,

I have debated the topic of which is better MT or PDK many times. Better to me is a very personal choice and not so much about features. In regards to PDK starting in economic mode is not relevant as mentioned by others. I don't know how many of you remember but there was a time when Porsche had an upshift arrow to encourage the driver to upshift to be more economical and conserve fuel. Personally I hated that light arrow. And for the life of me I could not figure out how to turn it off. At least with the PDK you can change it's program to your individual liking. That to me is a much better method.

Thank you again to all. I do appreciate everyones thoughts and opinions.

Cheers

Patriot

Pleasantly surprised how much I like the PDK in my 2011 Cayman. And for those times I feel like shifting, I push the gear shift lever to the left and shift at redline.

sandwedge

Just got back in. I was in 6th gear at 47mph, around 2,000 rpm in auto/sport at one point. Nothing sporty about that imo which is why I think sport and normal could have been configured a little farther apart. Again, I don't spend a lot of time in auto so it's really not an issue.

Alan Smithee

This really is getting tiresome, Mike.

The BS I was referring to was the claimed 3 car length advantage to 60 with PDK. On paper, performance is a wash between the two; .2 advantage to 60 with PDK, and 2 mph more top speed with the MT. Those are the objective numbers as published by Porsche for the C2S, and they are insignificant due to countless variables.

The GTS "feels" faster due to its wider powerband, which will not necessarily be reflected in acceleration times.
I disagree. Even in sport mode, if your foot is not in it, the transmission tries to get revs down well below the powerband for economy, just like every other modern automatic transmission. In my opinion, this is annoying, not at all fun in a sports car, and not indicative of a 'performance' option, regardless of its willingness to downshift with throttle application or ability to override with the buttons/paddles. With a MT, you can keep the revs up even when driving sedately, and alternate between quick and leisurely shifts as you row up through the gears if you so choose. Personally, I consider this to be complete control; not having to fight with the computer to keep the car in the powerband. Sure, you can leave it in manual mode - but in my opinion pushing buttons gets boring very quickly, so I would go back to automatic mode, and down to 2k RPM.

I will reiterate that transmission choice is subjective. When the choice was made (it wasn't mine) to have a 997 as a daily driver in the household, it was a Tiptronic to appease the wife and deal with traffic. Today it would be a PDK (Porsche, Rohrl included, touted all of the same advantages with Tiptronic). However, what I learned is that, in my situation, regardless of Porsche marketing and PDK's improvements over Tiptronic, their sports cars are best with manual transmissions.

Skibum

Totally agree.

Mike in CA

According to the gear chart that Tony (ADias) worked up recently, at 38 mph in 6th gear we should be turning about 1500 RPM, and 51 MPH is 2000 rpm. 47 mph at around 2000 is in the ballpark, but the original post about 40 mph at 2000 rpm in 6th seemed low from my experience and from the chart.

I find that you have to be extremely easy on the throttle to even approach these shift points when accelerating in Sport. When coasting down off throttle you can occasionally see the numbers we're discussing.

Don't mean to split hairs, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your basic point. If one drives more aggressively the behavior changes completely, of course, but like you I use manual almost exclusively and it's not a concern anyway.



Well, I guess that's the one thing we can agree on, Alan.

gasongasoff

Alan, all of the claims regarding PDK's performance advantage are published and obtainable from various sources.

For a C2S, 0-60 is 4.5s (manual) vs. 4.3s (PDK). May I remind you that a 0.2s difference is the same difference you'd see between a C2 base and a C2S.

With launch control, the difference becomes 0.4s. May I remind you that a 0.4s is the greater than the difference you'd see between a C2 base and a GTS.

There is absolutely no arguing that the gear change with PDK can be accomplished in less than half the time as you could ever hope for with a manual.

There is also absolutely no arguing that the power loss between gear shifts is far less with PDK than with even the most perfectly executed manual shift due to the simultaneous power transfer between the dual transmissions.

And finally, I have no idea how a PDK operated in "manual" mode can be "programmed" for any kind of fuel efficiency, since shifting is manually triggered - I hope you understand that PDK has a manual mode, because you keep bringing up arguments about the "computer doing this and that," not quite realizing that this only applies when the PDK is left in "automated" mode.

JamesT7

Alan why do you keep wanting to discuss MT versus PDK in the which is better argument. That is not my topic. I want to understand how owners use their Porsche with PDK. I do not care to debate the issues or facts regarding which is better. If that is what you would like to do then by all means start a discussion about that with a new thread.

For those of you that own a PDK keep your stories and thoughts coming. It rained terribly today so my plans changed and I will drive the PDK tomorrow.

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers

mdrobc1213

Kinda like he said. I had an '05 Carrera Base 6sp and loved that car and in the DC/MD/VA area never found the shifting to be much of a problem. Sold it and after a bit ended up with an '09 Carrera S PDK and also an '08 BMW M3 6sp as my daily driver. Thoughts? I don't mind the PDK at all...drive in manual when I want to and can leave it in D when I feel like it too. Traffic is no worry in the PDK where in the 6sp at times could be a bear. My only problem with the PDK is that unless its in sport or sport plus it does like to "hunt" for 7th gear which can be somewhat of a drag/dull slog at times so my 2nd step after turning the key is often to push the sport exhaust button followed by the sport botton to ensure my drive is enjoyable and proper "porsche-like" IMHO.

As for the manual? I sold my m3 and got an A7 also with paddles and sport suspension and it does the job also and provides thrills. And if not a Z4M 6sp is in the garage too for those times when NOT shifting is NOT an option. LOL But in the end either transmission is liveable and enjoyable...it just depends on personal preferences and driving styles. good luck!

pilfjd

Heh, it was tongue in cheek, thus the smiley face that I added to my post. I guess you are too new to this forum to have seen these hilariously epic threads. But, for your amusement:


Back up sensors thread

Flooring it thread

sandwedge

That's right but that happens unintentionally when in traffic......even traffic that moves along at speed limit. You keep moving but just can't accelerate enough for the system to recognize that you're in sport mode because you drive as if you "should" be in normal. That's my only gripe.

The only time I'm in auto is when traffic defeats the purpose of being in manual but the two auto modes lending themselves to driving in traffic behave too much alike. I'm never in normal mode by the way. Pushing the sport button has become a reflex after starting the car just like sport plus always goes on with manual mode.

OldGuy

I drove my car for the first time back to Bakersfield since I bought it in 2009 today. Remembering what the 2 GT3s I had were like coming up the 58 from bakersfield with all the trucks and the PDK is like going to a waterballon fight with a 50 cal machine gun. It is SO fast SO fun to drive without the hassle of shifting up and down to match the trucks laboring up the highway. Truly a magnificent achievement from Porsche.
May I remind you guys that Car and Driver got 3.8 to 60 in a PDK in a C2S. I think that is totally achievable.Its just SO much fun!
No doubt the PDK is better and more fun to me and thats after I was in the NEVER BUY AN AUTO SPORTS CAR boat.
Remember its not an automatic. Its an manual transmission that shifts automatically as defined by Porsche.