Min camber with Toyo 888?
#1
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As in subject, what is the recomended minimum camber to use with 235/35 and 295/30, 19" 888's on a Carrera with -20 mm OEM sports suspension?
Thanks.
Thanks.
#4
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http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/proxes-r888 - set up and Care.. Toyo recommends between -2.5-5.0 degrees of negative camber
Toyo Tires recommends the following general set up guidelines for the Proxes R888:
From the website:
Operating Temperature: 160°F to 220°F
Hot Inflation Pressures: 32 to 38 (psi)
Camber: -2.5° to -5.0°
Caster: As much positive as possible
Most stock 996/997s won't get more than about -2 (and perhaps only -1.8) negative camber in the front without changing the LCA or adding camber plates.
Toyo Tires recommends the following general set up guidelines for the Proxes R888:
From the website:
Operating Temperature: 160°F to 220°F
Hot Inflation Pressures: 32 to 38 (psi)
Camber: -2.5° to -5.0°
Caster: As much positive as possible
Most stock 996/997s won't get more than about -2 (and perhaps only -1.8) negative camber in the front without changing the LCA or adding camber plates.
#7
Race Director
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Like other have said Toyo recomends minimum of -2.5 degrees of camber. However I got away with -2 for a while. It depends on if you are tracking the car hard, your track and driving style.
Anything more than -1.3 can not be had on a Carrera S with Sport PASM. You will need the GT3 lower control arms.
I use -2.5 front and -2.2 rear for street/DE car.
Anything more than -1.3 can not be had on a Carrera S with Sport PASM. You will need the GT3 lower control arms.
I use -2.5 front and -2.2 rear for street/DE car.
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#8
Burning Brakes
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Like other have said Toyo recomends minimum of -2.5 degrees of camber. However I got away with -2 for a while. It depends on if you are tracking the car hard, your track and driving style.
Anything more than -1.3 can not be had on a Carrera S with Sport PASM. You will need the GT3 lower control arms.
I use -2.5 front and -2.2 rear for street/DE car.
Anything more than -1.3 can not be had on a Carrera S with Sport PASM. You will need the GT3 lower control arms.
I use -2.5 front and -2.2 rear for street/DE car.
#9
Race Director
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I decreased rear toe a little too...running .12 degree per side right now....down from .16 degrees per side....but have heard I should be running a lot more rear toe, like .20 per side for the track. Everyone has different opinions on rear toe.
#10
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I think GT3's need more rear toe than 997's because they generally oversteer more.
#11
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Thanks all for your input.
No LCA's are installed on this car. However, there are a used set of camber plates avaliable locally. They are said to fit with stock suspension. I'm sceptical but will have to find out.
Anyway, what improvement can realistically be expected from camber plates? An additional ½ deg neg?
If I end up at ~1.7 neg up fron, what is a good starting point for rear setting? You don't want more neg camber in the back, right?
Local tracks are quite slow but twisty, top speed at end of straights ~180-230 km/h. In current (stock) setup, street tires wear out quite quickley on outer sides.
No LCA's are installed on this car. However, there are a used set of camber plates avaliable locally. They are said to fit with stock suspension. I'm sceptical but will have to find out.
Anyway, what improvement can realistically be expected from camber plates? An additional ½ deg neg?
If I end up at ~1.7 neg up fron, what is a good starting point for rear setting? You don't want more neg camber in the back, right?
Local tracks are quite slow but twisty, top speed at end of straights ~180-230 km/h. In current (stock) setup, street tires wear out quite quickley on outer sides.
#12
Race Director
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LCA's are really the only way to go on a 997 (Carrera S) car. Camber plates will not get the job done.
#13
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If you want to get decent grip and wire life out of them, 2.5 deg is the minimum. Less and you will get a lot of camber wear on the outside edge. Just monitor it and flip the tires to get more life out of them. These tires have extremely soft sidewalls, which is the main reason why they need more camber. They run best stretched on a rim (read and follow Toyo's recommendations). On my Carrera with 18x9/18x11 CCWs, I ran significantly faster(over 3 seconds quicker a lap) on 235/295 R888s than on 255/315 R888s. With the wide tires turn-in was terrible (due to tire flex) and they were very slow to heat up. I was also able to run about 6 psi less pressure cold on the narrower tires to get the same hot temps while significantly improving the response and feel.
Best way to improve camber is to get a pair of GT3 control arms and shim them out. I had 10mm shim packs on my Carrera to get -2.5 camber. To keep from having rubbing issues, run them RSR style: left arm on the right and right arm on the left with the track arms in the offset holes. The main benefit of the GT3 control arms over camber plates is the track gain which helps with stability and turn-in.
Best way to improve camber is to get a pair of GT3 control arms and shim them out. I had 10mm shim packs on my Carrera to get -2.5 camber. To keep from having rubbing issues, run them RSR style: left arm on the right and right arm on the left with the track arms in the offset holes. The main benefit of the GT3 control arms over camber plates is the track gain which helps with stability and turn-in.
Last edited by 10 GT3; 04-22-2011 at 01:42 AM.
#14
Race Director
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If you want to get decent grip and wire life out of them, 2.5 deg is the minimum. Less and you will get a lot of camber wear on the outside edge. Just monitor it and flip the tires to get more life out of them. These tires have extremely soft sidewalls, which is the main reson why they need more camber. They run best stretched on a rim (read and follow Toyo's recommendations). On my Carrera with 18x9/18x11 CCWs, I ran significantly faster(over 3 seconds quicker a lap) on 235/295 R88s than on 255/315 R888s. With the wide tires turn-in was terrible (due to tire flex) and they were very slow to heat up. I was also able to run about 6 psi less pressure cold on the narrower tires to get the same hot temps while significantly improving the response and feel.
I always thought the R888 to have a stiff side wall compared to RA1's or my street tires. I'm running 35/36 hot pressures. Anything near or over 38 hot with the R888's seems like less grip.
I only run R888's because I drive the car to and from the track. If I had a trailer I'd be on R6 or Yoko slicks....but this might be too sticky of a tire for my stock Sport PASM suspension.
#15
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It's pretty much all been said. Were I to do it again, I'd still get the OEM Control Arms vs. trying either new or used camber plates. It's a proven product made by Porsche and it wouldn't be worth it to me to save a few hundred on a $100k car. My alignment:
-2.4 Front Camber
8.2 / 8.5 Caster
-0.2 Total Front Toe
-2.0 Rear Camber
.22 / .22 rear Toe
Even though we don't have adjustable height coil overs on our OEM SPASM suspensions, they did corner balance just to check and it was pretty much on the money.
-2.4 Front Camber
8.2 / 8.5 Caster
-0.2 Total Front Toe
-2.0 Rear Camber
.22 / .22 rear Toe
Even though we don't have adjustable height coil overs on our OEM SPASM suspensions, they did corner balance just to check and it was pretty much on the money.