Insurance solution to RMS and IMS
02-22-2011, 06:00 PM
#46
Drifting
Seriously though, whats missing is not that it affects 1 in 100 cars, but WHEN does it affect them. If you test over the 3 year warranty period (maybe that was implied), or does it affect 1 in 100 cars over 10 years?
If there is a 1% chance that your 997 will have the covered failure during the 3 year covered period, then your expected (as in statistics/math terminology) cost is 1% of the cost of the repair = 1% of $25,000, which is $250. As you implied, that is for the average person in a large enough group. So you would pay $2000 for insurance to protect against a statistically likely $250 loss average loss. This means that most folks will pay for insurance they will not need, but some small amount will find out it was so worth it as they have the failure.
The insurance co. profit assumes they have a sufficiently large pool of insured cars (which one can assume, as the insurance company is also doing the math), but more importantly, nothing no other repairs are needed by anyone. If the only ones that purchase the insurance are those that know they are at high risk, then their profit would be lower.
The bottom line, I think, is we all know the insurance company would not be selling the policies if they didn't make money on them. The question is, how confident are you in knowing if you are in or out of the 1% (assumed) that has this expensive failure?
02-22-2011, 08:03 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Sorry Wisky, but you are not allowed to say "fact" and "if" in the same sentence. ;-)
Seriously though, whats missing is not that it affects 1 in 100 cars, but WHEN does it affect them. If you test over the 3 year warranty period (maybe that was implied), or does it affect 1 in 100 cars over 10 years?
If there is a 1% chance that your 997 will have the covered failure during the 3 year covered period, then your expected (as in statistics/math terminology) cost is 1% of the cost of the repair = 1% of $25,000, which is $250. As you implied, that is for the average person in a large enough group. So you would pay $2000 for insurance to protect against a statistically likely $250 loss average loss. This means that most folks will pay for insurance they will not need, but some small amount will find out it was so worth it as they have the failure.
The insurance co. profit assumes they have a sufficiently large pool of insured cars (which one can assume, as the insurance company is also doing the math), but more importantly, nothing no other repairs are needed by anyone. If the only ones that purchase the insurance are those that know they are at high risk, then their profit would be lower.
The bottom line, I think, is we all know the insurance company would not be selling the policies if they didn't make money on them. The question is, how confident are you in knowing if you are in or out of the 1% (assumed) that has this expensive failure?
Seriously though, whats missing is not that it affects 1 in 100 cars, but WHEN does it affect them. If you test over the 3 year warranty period (maybe that was implied), or does it affect 1 in 100 cars over 10 years?
If there is a 1% chance that your 997 will have the covered failure during the 3 year covered period, then your expected (as in statistics/math terminology) cost is 1% of the cost of the repair = 1% of $25,000, which is $250. As you implied, that is for the average person in a large enough group. So you would pay $2000 for insurance to protect against a statistically likely $250 loss average loss. This means that most folks will pay for insurance they will not need, but some small amount will find out it was so worth it as they have the failure.
The insurance co. profit assumes they have a sufficiently large pool of insured cars (which one can assume, as the insurance company is also doing the math), but more importantly, nothing no other repairs are needed by anyone. If the only ones that purchase the insurance are those that know they are at high risk, then their profit would be lower.
The bottom line, I think, is we all know the insurance company would not be selling the policies if they didn't make money on them. The question is, how confident are you in knowing if you are in or out of the 1% (assumed) that has this expensive failure?
I would be 99% confident that I would not be experiencing the failure
.Slightly off topic - how much is the fail-safe IMS fix? Isn't it around $3k installed for the LN Engineering kit for a 997?
02-22-2011, 08:49 PM
#49
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Infractions for insults issued. FWIW, IMS failures are just a small portion of things which can go wrong., Price out a catalytic converter for example.
02-22-2011, 09:41 PM
#50
Go into the LN Engineering web site. They have a very informative write up on the IMS bearing. Search products, models, IMS upgrades. Note the part about the M97 motor, MY06-08. It requires a motor tear down to replace the bearing.
02-23-2011, 03:07 AM
#51
02-23-2011, 03:36 AM
#52
.... researchers are bound by ethics and in most cases the conditions of their grant, to publish their results regardless of whether their hypothesis is proved or disproved by the data. The patently false insinuation you make, if not for its laughable ignorance, is insulting and borders upon libel. .....
Oh the irony of this pretentious comment when, in another thread Palmbeacher declares:
”In the healthcare professions we're inundated with statistics on everything. I'm convinced that most of the researchers bank on us being too busy to look beyond the "conclusions" paragraph and take a critical look at the methodology. otherwise a whole host of things jump out that lead to suspect corrupt data.”
https://rennlist.com/forums/7542721-post25.html
Wow.
Sounds like libel to me
02-23-2011, 09:24 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
usually people get that done together with clutch when transmission goes down so costs combine, I never heard of anybody doing just IMS fix alone.
$3K is more realistic for newer cars where you cannot get out bearing from outside and need to take engine apart.
02-23-2011, 09:46 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
i thought kit was about $600 and install was about a grand.
usually people get that done together with clutch when transmission goes down so costs combine, I never heard of anybody doing just IMS fix alone.
$3K is more realistic for newer cars where you cannot get out bearing from outside and need to take engine apart.
usually people get that done together with clutch when transmission goes down so costs combine, I never heard of anybody doing just IMS fix alone.
$3K is more realistic for newer cars where you cannot get out bearing from outside and need to take engine apart.
.
Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Infractions for insults issued. FWIW, IMS failures are just a small portion of things which can go wrong., Price out a catalytic converter for example.
02-24-2011, 12:33 PM
#57
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Oh the irony of this pretentious comment when, in another thread Palmbeacher declares:
”In the healthcare professions we're inundated with statistics on everything. I'm convinced that most of the researchers bank on us being too busy to look beyond the "conclusions" paragraph and take a critical look at the methodology. otherwise a whole host of things jump out that lead to suspect corrupt data.”
https://rennlist.com/forums/7542721-post25.html
Wow.
Sounds like libel to me
”In the healthcare professions we're inundated with statistics on everything. I'm convinced that most of the researchers bank on us being too busy to look beyond the "conclusions" paragraph and take a critical look at the methodology. otherwise a whole host of things jump out that lead to suspect corrupt data.”
https://rennlist.com/forums/7542721-post25.html
Wow.
Sounds like libel to me
The way you edit so as to quote completely out of context, assuming the readers are lazy and unintelligent, does reek of a community-college journalism degree, though
02-24-2011, 01:09 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
i thought kit was about $600 and install was about a grand.
usually people get that done together with clutch when transmission goes down so costs combine, I never heard of anybody doing just IMS fix alone.
$3K is more realistic for newer cars where you cannot get out bearing from outside and need to take engine apart.
usually people get that done together with clutch when transmission goes down so costs combine, I never heard of anybody doing just IMS fix alone.
$3K is more realistic for newer cars where you cannot get out bearing from outside and need to take engine apart.
My car was CPO'd up until Feb 3rd. While under CPO, I developed an RMS leak.
The dealer replaced the RMS seal with the newest version. I called Sunset Porsche and got a great price on a new oem clutch kit. My car only had 35k on it at the time but the clutch pedal was really stiff. When I took the car to the dealer I told them to put the new clutch kit in when they reinstalled the trans.
They did it with no issue. So I got the RMS replaced and a brand new clutch,pressure plate, and throw out bearing all for the cost of the clutch kit
($530).
I have decided not to go with an aftermarket warranty but I feel I do need to address the IMS bearing for the long haul.
On the 996 motors (installed up until the end of the 05 model year IIRC),
the single row LN bearing is $519 and the dual row (for the 99-01 cars) is $595 (from Pelican parts)
I'm hoping the local well trusted indie will not beat me up too bad just for the install of the IMS bearing.
My car has just over 40k on the clock.
02-24-2011, 03:47 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Saving $135 net per month.
I'd like to thank Boolala for the volumes he has added to this thread. Instead of taking an Ambien CR before bed I now pull up this thread and start reading his/her dribble on insurance and all things tangent.
I'd like to continue but just thinking about it in the middle of the day has suddenly caused my eyelids to droop. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I'd like to thank Boolala for the volumes he has added to this thread. Instead of taking an Ambien CR before bed I now pull up this thread and start reading his/her dribble on insurance and all things tangent.
I'd like to continue but just thinking about it in the middle of the day has suddenly caused my eyelids to droop. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
04-06-2011, 02:56 AM
#60
Track Day
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I am going with Fidelity Warranty (www.fidelitywarrantyservices.com) for my extended warranty contract. They do cover IMS and RMS failures (and the resulting damage) under their basic Powertrain coverage. Pricing depends upon you car year and mileage. As a reference point I have a 2005 997S with 12K miles and the basic coverage for 4 years/48,000 miles is $2277. Not bad considering the cost of an IMS failure.
For an extra $600 I basically will get total car coverage for many many other items. I am buying this through a local Porsche dealer in NJ. All warranty work can be done by Porsche or any "Legal Repair Shop that is ASE CERTIFIED" per the contract.
For an extra $600 I basically will get total car coverage for many many other items. I am buying this through a local Porsche dealer in NJ. All warranty work can be done by Porsche or any "Legal Repair Shop that is ASE CERTIFIED" per the contract.
Where did you get your warranty? I will be very happy with your pricing.
Term/Mileage - $100 / $50 disappearing deductible
2yr/24k $3939 / $4466
3yr/36k $5011 / $5774
4yr/48k $6189 / $7211
4yr/60k $7135 / $8335
5yr/60k $8090 / $9290