Maurier

Hi guys sorry for making another post but I really need some help here because I think my Porsche dealer just played me for a fool=)
I recently purchased a 2010 Carrera S and it had about 35 km on delivery. I bought the 2010 since I had to wait about 4 months for the 2011 and I also got an $8000 discount on it.
Now the discount it self is fishy here is why..............first off I just realized that Porsche dropped the price on all 2011 carrera S of $5000 so in theory I only got a $3000 discount.
I was told by my sale rep that this Carrera S was custumized all in black. I am thinking somebody must of ordered this car the way it was?
At the time I was so excited that I was not thinking straight. Lately I got a little suspicious and did a search on carfax and this si what came up:

year purchased 2010 ( I purchased this in 2011)
type of owner personal
estimated length of ownership 1 month ( I only had this car for less then 10 days)
Now the scarry part:

12/04/2010 Ontario ministry of transportation Registration issued or renewed
First owner reported
Registered as personal vehicle



01/17/2011 Ontario ministry of transportation Registration issued or renewed
passed safety inspection
vehicle colour noted as black

Not this seems to me that on the 12/04/2010 this car was registered under someone else?
I purchased the car on the 16th of january and was delivered on the 20 of january.
Now what got me suspicious int he first place is this.......The total of this car came to around 136K and my old care was valued at 44K. I payed 80K and the remaining 10K(or so) I did a finance. On the finance papers it stated " Used 2010 911 carrera S" this had me thinking wth?
On the porsche contract it says " new 2010 porsche carrera s coupe.
I really hope this car was not registered under someone else before me because if it was I should of been informed sine it becomes a pre owned vehicle and I would not pay full retail price for a used vehicle lol.
I am going to my lawyer on monday and will let him dig up all the infos on this car.
I really hope I am wrong cause I really like the car. But if I am not wrong I am going to be really upset and will not let them get away with this.

tobyport

Maurier, Porsche offered a dealer incentive program that ended sometime in 2010 for 911's. The dealer got (I think) $9000 kickback on cars reported sold by a certain period of time. So it is customary for the dealer to report the vehicle SOLD to Porsche, even though technically there is no buyer at the time this is reported. If the dealer doesn't report the car sold, they forfeit the incentive. So your dealer probably did just that...reported it sold "on paper" so to speak, so that they could capture the incentive. Hope this helps.

Maurier

Didn't know about that and that is what probably happened. My only concern is if this will end up biting me in the butt in fwo gears when i will resale the car to get a new carrera. Hope it will not show that it had two owners.

91469972

No matter but if this dealer stated NEW on the contract and you find it was a prior regestered vehicle I would first call the management at the dealer and let them know if they do no compensate you Porsche will be contacted and you want to return the car.

jsmirand

If the car has 35km on it, it's new. The deal is behind you, forget about lawyers. Go out and enjoy your spectacular car in good health.

mschwa3439

u overpayed on this car by about $5500

philooo

I had a similar experience on my wife BMW 128i, we got a great discount because the car was declared as sold by the dealership to pocket an incentive, and then they really put those car on top of their priority list to really sell them to customer, which in turn to relatively good deal after all.

Our dealer told us about it though. I think your dealer should have had. Not that the car was driven, in our case the car had like 7 miles on it. But on paper it was owned yes.

So no need to worry about it, just that your dealer lost your trust because of a lack of disclosure. This is indeed common practice in this world of never ending incentives.

StanThePorscheFan

Maurier, who is your dealer? Neither Pfaff nor DFC would sell a used car as a new one. Their reputation is pretty good around here. Also, there's a Canadian forum on RL. A lot of guys there might be able to dig up some info for you. I would take that Carfax to your dealer and ask for an explanation before you start feeding the sharks.

pewter82

Sounds like a very nice S , and you roughly 8% off sticker...if the dealer actually got the factory kickback money they will probably never take that off the price.
If its considered used now, you might asked to have it certified and get 2 extra years of warranty. One of the Porsche dealers in my state took a new 09 at the end of last year and used the Porsche kickback and placed a certified warranty on the car. It has less than 100 miles on it, but the car will not be considered new by your financial institution and you get a used car rate.

Maurier

First off thanks for all the replies and help.
I will start off by saying that I love the car and I want to keep it but I also want to make sure that I have not been screwed=)
After I saw that porsche lowered the prices on their 2011 carrera of $5000 I realized I really did not get a good deal at all. But nevermind that since I like the vehicle that is not a deal braker.
One thing that upset me on the day I picked up the car was that it was not cleaned very properly for a car with a sticker price of 130K.
When I got home I removed the carpet on the driver side and you know how there is that little plastic thingy ont he carpet near the pedals? Well that thing was full of mud in the linings. I had to take a wet cloth and clean it all up and I also found stains on the lining of the roof ( most likely from the cream they used to polish the car) and around the fron lights.
Some of you will probably say " omg you are so picky" but on a 130K car I expect to be cleaned to perfection and not find mud on the driver side. Hell even the carpet on the back had all this fluffy hairs that took me literally 5 minutes to clean up. That goes to show how lazy this guy was.
And if I owned that dealership and that guy dared to deliver a 130K car to a custumer like that he would be fired on the spot.
I am a meticulous person and I take the fact that they didn't not take the time to properly clean the car as an insult to me. Sorry.
Then again this are minor issues and not deal brakers. The problem now is that carfax shows that this car was registered under someone else name on the 12/04/2010.
Sorry guys but I bought a 2010 car in 2011 only got a $3000 discount and they said that by valuing my 335xi 2009 coupe ( with 20000KMH) 44k was a favor since most bmw dealers only offered them 30k but you knwo that is a lie.
A 2009 335xi coupe in perfect conditions fully loaded for 30k? Before buying the Carrera I went to bmw to look at M3's and they had offered me 45k for my 335.
So only $3000 discount is not that great but then again I am at fault here because I took the deal and that is that. I am not going to cry over this.
BUT if the car was registered under someone else name prior to me, making it a pre owned vehicle and I was not informed of this then it is trouble.
And what pisses me off even more is that they got $9000 back on this car from Porsche? So in theory I got screwed big time over here and that I don't like.
A 1 year old car pre owned I payed sticker price for it like it was a brand new 2011? No way I should of been told about that. Now when I go andd resale this car that will show up and I will loose big money on a pre owned car.
That is a violation of contract and can be considered fraud. I hope carfax is wrong but if it's not I can't sleep at night knowing that I payed 136K for a 2010 carrera s pre owned.
Sure the car is new at 35KM but that is not the problem. A car in Ontario is considered new when it as no titles on it.
Yesterday I called my sales rep and told him about it and he said that it was a typo and the car was not under anybody name.
Anyways this morning I will contact the finance company and ask why they put used on the paper then I will go to the ontario ministry of transportation and get all the paper work on this car and take it from there.
If the car is second hand then I expect a substantial reimbursement and if not they will take the car back and I will contact a lawyer.
I am a really nice guy and I never go out of my way to screw anybody in life and for that reason I expect to be treated with respect especially when buying a car like a Porsche.
I will not like to cause trouble but I will if I have to.


PS

forgive my spelling englsih is a second language to me.

Maurier

The dealer is DFC.
Don't worry I will not start feeding the sharks =)
Keep in mind that I was told by the sale rep that this car was ordered custom made so that should of been a warning but excitement got the best of me.
LIke I said I hope carfax is wrong and probably it is but if there is a prior title on this car I can not take the deal like that. They should of told me about it and I would of NEVER bought a pre owned car at that price.
To me it is not about the km on it , it is about the fact that I loose money on the resale value of this car.
What if I had sold the car privately two years down the line and the guy ask me are you the only owner? and I would say " yap"
Then he finds out it had another owner I loose the sale and reputaion.
I really hope carfax is wrong.

Maurier

I can not take the car under those circumstances even if they increase the warranty it will not matter to me. It is a question of principle at this point.
I have the contract here in front of me at this time and the base price of my carrera s is $109,900.00 and not the 2011 are at $ 104,900.00.
There is no good deal here =) But like I said I don't care about all of this. But if it is a pre owned vehicle and I was not made aware of it and they charged me for a new 911 then unless they come my way and put a REALLY big smile on my face when I walk out of there I will have to seek legal advice.
In this case I don't even think is need it.

boolala

If it is preowned I would request an additional $6000 discount as well as free CPO on the car.

The CPO will partially compensate you for the fact that you purchaced a used car at a new car price and will suffer greater depreciation due to the previous title.

StanThePorscheFan

Find out what in-service date is. That is the date your warranty was initiated. That would tell you if the car had a previous owner. Also, go to the Ontario MTO kiosk and purchase a Used Vehicle package. That would also list any previous owners, including names.
If there where no previous owners and the car was sold new, you will not be able to do anything about the price you've paid. Whats done is done. Enjoy the car and stop obsessing over how much you've paid. Come out to a GTG this Sat, meet the boys and start enjoying everything that Porsche ownership has to offer.


Stan

stevepow

Probably the best thing to do - write it down as the cost of education.

I suspect it was all technically "legit", but you gotta know sales people are looking out for no one but themselves most times.

I would go to the dealer and get an explanation - make them squirm a bit and waste some guys time explaining the whole paper trail , but don't let it ruin your experience.

On the upside, sounds like you got a nice car.