kosmo

Chris must live where there are no potholes or traffic.

Edgy01

The Porsche "911" is what it is today because Porsche listens to their customers. What you are seeing the the "911" is precisely what today's Porsche 911 customer wants.

Tcc1999

Wholeheartedly agree w/ you about BMW. But why would you fear VW fiddling with the Porsche brand to compete w/ BMW? They (VW) already have Audi to go head to head w/ BMW (specifically, the commercial, "To our Friends at BMW . . . ") Of course, what do I know about what VW will do w/ Porsche.

swajames

As Henry Ford said, if he'd asked his customers what they wanted, they'd have asked for a faster horse.

Listening to customers and basing product decisions on output from focus groups is what brought the old GM to its knees. Customers by and large have no idea what they want - the real innovation comes from those who have the ability to imagine and then build something that customers wouldn't necessarily know to ask for.

I also agree with the comparison with BMW. The fact that they've been 'listening to customers' is why we now have a 5 Series that in 550i guise is nudging 4500lbs...

Chris from Cali

I agree with him. That's why I'm buying a 997.2 GT3 shortly. Of course, I've had an Evo and an S2000 as daily drivers, so I like "Spartan" cars. I'll keep the C4S for my wife.

sclemmons

One more thing. Before I bought the 997, I called BMWCCA where I have been a member for 25 years and told them basically what I said in the paragraph above, and told them I was the perfect candidate for a new M5 or a new M3, but that I hated the cars and hated my dealer even more.

Their response? "Thank you for the call. We hear this from our long time BMWCCA members all the time." I don't doubt Edgy's view for a minute, that Porsche is making what the customers want. BMW is doing the same thing, but they both care less every day about the long-term enthusiasts.

Mike in CA

What can you point to on Porsche's part that supports that last assertion? I think the amazing flexibility that Porsche gives the enthusiast, more than any other mainstream car company I can think of, to select a model and then option it to meet his/her precise needs, proves that your statement is incorrect.

Patriot

Very well said. I absolutely love the tasteful, timeless minimalism that is Porsche. The 'less is more' approach to auto electronics and gizmos. Keep it simple. Keep it classic. Keep it Porsche.

beowulf

Despite the Panamera interior; longer wheelbase; funny rear end I think I read that Porsche has not "fattened" the 991. BMW/Audi/Mercs are bloated - even their so called sporting variants - M/S/AMG.

stevepow

Yes, BMW is a huge disappointment. They had me for 25 yrs and no more - the brand is off somewhere - like that saying, where they're coming from, I don't want to be.

But Porsche still seems to be about being Porsche - I hope it doesn't change.

Z356

Don't know if I would compare the current multiple 911 model choices to what Porsche offered back in 1967. The 911R was limited to a production of 20 or so examples in total, so that was not an 'available' model to the general public. Cabrios had not been offered by Porsche since the last 356 C model was built in Zuffenhausen in 1965 (of which I had one). So basically in MY1967 you had, as I remember, the choice of a 912, a 911 or a 911S in coupe or a soft rear Targa, period! z356

rodsky

I'm in disagreement. I'm on my 4th Porsche, started with an 85 Carrera 3.2, and this one is the best in every way. I love this car and I think Porsche nailed it. The only area that I fault it is in the noise department. Its lacking there. I think PSE should be standard. But my 997.2S with SPASM is liveable as a DD. Bear in mind we all have our definition of whats liveable. Many people get in my 997.2S and say its rough and bumpy. Imagine them gettiing in a GT3. The 997.2 is easily liveable without compromise. I couldnt say that about my previous 3. Plus it performs better than all my others. Maybe its so good that he feels cars that lack in certain ways make it more "interesting". You could really lose it in my 3.2. My 997 has far higher limits.

I think Porsche is in fact getting better and others (apart from Ferrari) less so. I remember when I had my previous Porsche's, that they were quick but other cars were as quick if not quicker (AMG, M5's etc) although the Porsche was light and nimble and handled beautifully. Now, apart from super cars, my 997.2S doesnt have much to fear. Its also not tacking on the pounds. When I left my BMW M3 and went to my 3rd Porsche 996 40th anni, i was immediately impressed by the lighter weight and more crisp handling (far better car IMO). The 997.2S makes that car look like a vintage in every area - its so much better.

Could Porsche make lighter, rawer, louder cars than the regular 997 Carrera - yes. They are called the GT3, RS, Boxster Spyders etc. Fantastic cars and I considered them all. But for me, they arent daily liveable. Gt3 is "better" (louder, faster, more direct / raw) but not for what I want. Maybe some day when I have more garage space becasue I will have to have the GT3 AND a 997 or 991 Carrera.

Quadcammer

I agree with him. That said, this is due to the customer to a large extent. For one, the porsche customer base has changed. Yes, you have a bunch of enthusiasts, but you also have a bigger percentage who like the sporty look, the name, and the prestige. They lease the cars, they trade them in 3 years later, and get the next one. They don't want the GT3, they want the car that will give them all the options their buddies mercedes has in a 911 shape.

Sure you could get a stripped down base model, but the 911 is a touring car, so it would be a bit odd to not have some of these options.

Would anybody buy a 993 today? Hell yes. If I had a choice between a brand new 993 or a brand new 997, I'd get the 993. That said, I'm far in the minority here.

I also agree that I wasn't terribly impressed when driving my first 997. If you were to blindfold me, I'm not sure if I could have told you if I was in a 911 or a BMW or a (insert sports car here). They have lost some of that individuality.

Mercedes is not a sports car maker. It didn't spend the last 40 years of its existence building essentially one car that was purely focused on the sports car driving experience.

However, you better believe that the A series dillutes the brand image of Mercedes. They just happen to be lucky that their bigger models are damn good cars and people will continue to buy them. Ever wonder why there is no A-Class in the US?

Btw, since you mention "facts", care to share your statistics for boxster buyers who end up buying higher end models?

Your last two words explain the whole conundrum..."good business" I'll argue that Porsche used to be an engineering company who built cars and made some money, now its a Financial institution that can still build a decent car.

The porsche customer base has changed. If porsche wanted to grow and thrive, they had to change as well. I can understand the financial aspects here, what with quarterly earnings, proxy fights, institutional investors, etc. But as an enthusiast, I find it a shame that I have to go up to the GT class cars to get that same experience...and you can't extract a lot of that extra feel at anywhere near street legal speeds.

It absolutely has higher limits...to the point where you'd have to be nuts or suicidal to actually hit those limits on the street. There will come a point where cars have such high limits that you'll need to go to the track to have any fun. Really the only aspects of the 997 that you can exploit to the limit are acceleration and braking, which other cars do just as well for much less money.

I completely disagree about other cars. BMWs are heavier but they are just as technically good as the earlier cars. Want to talk about getting better, how about the Ford Mustang GT. That car has stepped it up in a major way. And of course your 911 feels better than an M3...one is a modified family sedan, the other is a touring car chassis from the beginning.

I think what owners of older cars like is not the performance. Hell, most modern sports cars would embarrass a 993 in almost every way...including the 996 and 997...but the 993 lets you feel everything...you feel one with the car at any speed. Call it nostalgic BS, but thats why these cars are as popular as they are...and hell, aside from cheesy a/c, there is no reason you couldn't daily drive a 993.

buckwheat987

In recent months when the Porsche sales figures come out people comment on how the 4 doors are carrying the company and how the 911 market is soft.

When I go to track events I hear conversations like those that mirror the sentiments of the article. The rawness of the 911 is slipping away.

And I don't expect anyone who has plunked down 90+K for a new 997.2 to speak about the wrong direction Porsche (MIGHT?) be taking.

I am not an expert on the history but I see and hear enough to believe that the article does have some merit. And the next carrera model will say allot as to where Porsche decides to place and market it's brand.

rodsky

Maybe you misunderstand me a little. My 997 is not only the best 911 i have owned but the most i have enjoyed a 911 of all the 4 that I have owned. If you feel nostalgic about the 993 and want to DD it, hats off to you. Its a great car. I have no yearning though to go back in time.

I agree that the other cars have gotten better too. But they seem to have gotten bigger and heavier. In 2004 when my 345HP 911 was the fastest street 911 (non GT/ TT), the AMG's, M5's etc. were faster. Now my 997.2S can keep up with the M5's or AMG's etc. straightline acceleration. Curves, handling etc. - no contest. All BMW's have put on quite a bit of weight and seem to be getting softer and bigger. Look at the latest 5 series. Porsche seems to be doing a better job keeping the weight reasonable. Apparently the next one wont be heavier - thats good. Other marques dont seem to do that.