ADias

I like to drive manual transmission cars.
I do not like conventional auto trannies
Liking manual trannies I think PDK is better.

It's OK if one does not like PDK. Just do not say it is bad or unsatisfying as that only applies to you.

I like both. Heck I just bought a small daily driver and think a manual is better for it. I do not state the manual is bad. Others, evidently do.

slicky rick

there are points to everyone here. it is true that a manual transmission with the normal clutch gives a satisfying drive especially if you do it properly and your equipment is good. now the automatic was created for a few things specifically for convinience. that is why so many of the cars specially in america were automatics even if there was a sacrifice in performance and economy. and even if there was this sacrifice ,majority of the car buyers in america still bought automatics. now comes the PDK with the convinience of the automatic and none of the negatives in economy and performance...it even came with improvement in these 2 aspects... i guess as a automaker, in view of profit and bottom line one could just go with 1 type of tranny.. the pdk. once it can take the power and torque of all the engines porsche can produce it will just produce pdk cars.. just a fearless forecast

Lubrecon

Wow, looks like my question stirred the pot, and the comments are helpful to me. I guess I had better drive one to see what I think. My son had a rental this summer and he did not have a lot of good things to say about the PDK, but what do kids know.....and of course, he does not own one like some here do.

Thanks again everyone...I'll chime in on my impressions after I drive one, maybe next week.

ADias

I suggest you do not drive in D. It's that but much more. Drive in M as a sequential. Also set SC in Sport and reset back PASM to Normal. Then please post back what you found. Try for a long drive on a nice canyon run.

slicky rick

to the op this topic will always create a discussion amongst the purist who prefer the direct feel and participation of the manual and the people who are taken by the performance gain and convinience of PDK. there have been so many posts regarding this topic and if you do a search you will see both sides of the coin...

Mike in CA

With all due respect, I disagree with your hypothesis. It seems to be based on the assumption that satisfaction comes only from the act of shifting the gears, working the clutch, etc. It fails to account for the satisfaction that comes from other aspects of using a transmission like PDK; it's faster, more versatile, technologically more advanced, more like a modern race car, etc.

I enjoy the physical act of shifting, working the clutch, rev matching, heel and toe; it's fun. That part of using a MT is more entertaining than flicking the PDK paddles, or to use your words, I prefer the physical "operation of a manual". However, virtually all of the other aspects of using a manual, on the road or on track, are inferior to PDK and it was impossible for me to ignore that when deciding between them.

There is more to the satisfaction of using the transmission than just the physical interaction with it. Satisfaction is derived on multiple levels. I prefer the act of shifting a manual, but I greatly prefer all the other benefits provided by PDK. That's why PDK was my choice, and why I find it very satisfying.

ADias

The PDK is also satisfying by providing:

Shifting precisely and quickly at the right moment.
Shifting without any power loss under full power acceleration.
Shfting without unsettling chassis.
Shifting mid-corner now possible.
Steering with full attention.
Braking with left foot.

The driver is still fully involved in shifting (M-mode) as in a racing sequential. The driver, not using a clutch, is now free to hone better steering skills.

I have driven manuals with rev matching and heel-toe for longer than I want to admit and always enjoyed it until the PDK was introduced. I have a new manual small car because I do not like an auto and even less in a small car. But side by side the PDK wins everyday.

swajames

Some good points there, but it's stretching credibility a little to say that pushing a button has you "fully involved in shifting".

gravedgr

Then by your admission, you do not "prefer a manual transmission", just *some* aspects of it. I prefer *none* of the benefits of the PDK. I appreciate their effectiveness but prefer the 6MT at all times. Due to those differences, you do not meet the criteria of my hypothesis.

It seems many people are reading too much into my statement. I do not dislike the PDK. I do not think the 6MT is "better". I do think that for those few that prefer *all* aspects of the manual transmission, they will find the auto-manual UNsatisfying.

I was thinking of the word "laughable", but I'm not very politically correct.

beowulf

"PDK ----Manual"
(choose one of the above and insert below)
----- makes driving more involved b/c the driver has immediate control of the transmission and feels more connected to the car.

Bob Rouleau

Gravedgr - not sure I agree with your statement. My RS is a 6MT and my 4S is a PDK. If I could buy an RS with PDK I would.

I drive PDK in manual mode all the time. On a race-track PDK is a winner. I hope the next Gen GT3s come PDK.

I have driven manuals all my life. I hate automatics. I love PDK but when it comes down to it, you like it or you don't.

One thing about the PDK box which is nice is the 7th speed. On a recent trip from Montreal to Albany NY, I averaged 28 MPG for the trip at an average speed of 75 MPH. Not bad for a car with 385 HP!

gravedgr

Thanks for commenting Bob, but I think you helped clarify my position - I don't dislike the PDK (i.e. I find nothing wrong with it), but I don't like it either. I appreciate what it can do, but there are no aspects of it I like over the 6MT.

Maybe I'm unique in my view. I drove the PDK around Road Atlanta and found it effective, but boring. Same with my street test drives. Same with driving the Ferrari California. Fast, efficient, thought the steering wheel shift lights were a great idea, but ultimately detracting from the joy of just "driving".

LlBr

These two comments show the disconnect involved in the "debate." ADias says it perfectly. Swajames: please allow me to use you as an example: no disrespect intended. (I'm writing hyperbolically for infotainment value). Disconnects are probably the result of guys who are either:

1. old and conservative brought up with MGs, Austin Healey, Triumph and feel righteous and comfortable in their assumptions about "driver involvement."

2. young and full of energy and want to jerk and thrust and think they are doing something important now that they want to feel they have total control of their own cars (and their independence).

3. either of the above items 1 & 2 both of whom have NEVER driven PDK.

Why the "disconnect" I speak of?

Lemme put it this way. When the leg and arm and brain and feet aren't jerking around what does the brain do with the extra processing ability? Does it take a nap? No.

Duh: the brain INTENSIFIES it's awareness of what the car and the road are doing while the car is going faster.

Among the great PDK features: Your big fat leg and arm no longer convulse and the loss of tire grip while you unhook the engine torque from the rubber by pushing a clutch with your foot is a thing of the past: It's a thing of beauty really!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Note 1: PDK is not a slush bucket, it's full power of HP/Tq applied to the road very grippingly fast.

Note 2: I have a guy I know in the old neighborhood, I sit in the passenger's seat. He shifts very sloppily. Every gear change has a little jerk to it. He loves his manual. I started saying "jerk" every time I felt one of his effed up less-than-perfect shifts. I gave up, he tried to improve, I doubt his habits changed.

Every and all shifts should be absolutely SMOOOOOOTH right? At a stop sign he's wearing his clutch out by over revving and slipping: "driver involvement?" I wonder what he thinks of PDK: no "driver involvement?" Will ask next time I see him.

My point in this note: "driver involvement" is probably claimed by a huge percentage of guys who can't shift and don't even know they can't shift. Do your own research. Just saying. It's related to the PDK debate. No big deal. If a guy likes to be "involved" by shifting a manual like sh*t that's great. "God" bless him. You guys who are staunch manual supporters: I hope your shifts are absolutely perfect otherwise you're thinking-perception-assumptions-conclusions are skewed. Just trying to help.

Mike in CA

You would prefer "none" of the benefits of PDK? If, for example, your slower 6sp car could be made as fast as an otherwise similar one with PDK you would decline? Curious, but ok.

Seriously, I get your point. You love shifting a manual; it's a big part of driving a sports car. So is ultimate performance. You give more weight to the former, I give more to the latter. As I think we can agree, neither one of us is "wrong" and each transmission has it's advantages; we simply choose to value those advantages differently.

As to your now more narrowly defined hypothesis, I have no issues at all with anyone who prefers a MT, and I'm not trying to push my choice as being better than yours. The only reason I responded in the first place was because you seemed to be saying that people who like manuals would find PDK unsatisfying. Maybe I read too much into your statement; I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. But just to reiterate, I'm someone who really likes manuals, and taking everything into account, I find PDK very satisfying and in fact a superior transmission. I know you would disagree. TEHO.

swajames

Using someone who clearly struggles with a manual to prove your point doesn't really cut it. You also assume I'm not a fan of the PDK, which isn't actually true - my next car will most probably have a PDK for many of the reasons ADias stated. My point, remains, however. Driver involvement in the mechanical process of shifting is lost when it's handled by buttons and by computer controlled clutches. That's indisputable. In terms of shifting, my car does nothing for me but everything that I ask. When I miss or mis-time a shift, it's entirely down to me. When I nail a heel and toe, it's also down to me. And that's just how I like it. I'll buy a PDK for many of the reasons others state here, but I'll be under no illusion that I've given something up in the way of involvement. It isn't always about the numbers - there are plenty of faster and cheaper cars I could have bought if it was.

Oh, and if you promise to lay off the unqualified, uninformed psychoanalyses, we'll promise to do the same. And do tell us how you like your PDK in your own 997.1...