OT: worst strategy call in F1 history at today's race
#31
Drifting
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It was nice to see Vettle win without his team having to cheat.
Webber was never in contention. Regardless of the Webber pit strategy, Webber didn't have the. pace. The entire 2nd half of the race he could not gain on Alonso, despite Petrov slowing Alonso down a small amount.
If Webber had been 2nd in the race, and Alonso 3rd, I'd like to have seen if then Red Bull would have done the Ferrari thing and had Vettel let Webber go to first.. but we will never know.
The only difference between Vettle and Hamilton is that Hamilton pulls the same crazy aggressive type stuff and gets away with it most of the time. With more experience, Vettle will get better at judging when to be crazy-aggressive. That, and we don't have to see pointless camera shots of Vettle's dad in the pit.
Webber was never in contention. Regardless of the Webber pit strategy, Webber didn't have the. pace. The entire 2nd half of the race he could not gain on Alonso, despite Petrov slowing Alonso down a small amount.
If Webber had been 2nd in the race, and Alonso 3rd, I'd like to have seen if then Red Bull would have done the Ferrari thing and had Vettel let Webber go to first.. but we will never know.
The only difference between Vettle and Hamilton is that Hamilton pulls the same crazy aggressive type stuff and gets away with it most of the time. With more experience, Vettle will get better at judging when to be crazy-aggressive. That, and we don't have to see pointless camera shots of Vettle's dad in the pit.
#32
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2011 GP will be interesting as Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari will be fighting it out. Mercedes will improve and Renault might be a threat as well. Vettel will be able to prove himself (or not) with a a more competitive field.
My prediction: Alonso wins
With respect to Team Orders - it is an F1 reality; like it or not and 2011 will be no different.
My prediction: Alonso wins
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With respect to Team Orders - it is an F1 reality; like it or not and 2011 will be no different.
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#33
Nordschleife Master
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Clearly Vettel is a very fast driver (as demonstrated by his 10 poles) with a very fast car (as demostrated by the constructors' championship). But he is hardly the best driver, as demostrated by his inability to pass without crashing, and the fact that, even with 10 poles, at no point before yesterday did he lead the championship. IMO, he is very lucky to have a 'world championship'; he did not deserve it.
#34
Drifting
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He is a true champion, showing emotion doesn't play in to that equation.
Being genuinely happy and not having a manager... seems like he's running his own show and having fun. We need more of that. We don't need Raikonnens dominating the sport.
Yeah, team orders are a reality, but its like College Football, you have someone who claims to be the best driver, but you cannot really prove that its the case. Alonso certainly wasn't the best driver, otherwise why would his team have to order Massa to let him pass? Team orders are a reality, but they also deny the ability to have a real drivers championship based on driver performance (since team politics play into it).
Being genuinely happy and not having a manager... seems like he's running his own show and having fun. We need more of that. We don't need Raikonnens dominating the sport.
Yeah, team orders are a reality, but its like College Football, you have someone who claims to be the best driver, but you cannot really prove that its the case. Alonso certainly wasn't the best driver, otherwise why would his team have to order Massa to let him pass? Team orders are a reality, but they also deny the ability to have a real drivers championship based on driver performance (since team politics play into it).
#35
Nordschleife Master
#36
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I'm no fanboy of Vettel or any current F1 driver for that matter. All the drivers have their flaws and even the greats like Senna acted like spoiled brats in their early years. In fact, compared to Senna at that age, Vettel seems more mature IMHO. But whatever bias some of you may have, since when does the driver with the most wins, most poles and ultimately the most points not deserve to be champion?
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#37
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Cut him a break guys. How many of us would be so mature at 23 (much less win the F1 World Championship)? I'll take his alleged immaturity over Alonso's verifiable lack of class (was he just shaking his fist or giving Petrov the finger on the cool down?) any day of the week.
And no I don't think Alonso will win the WDC next year. I bet it will get even more competitive.
And no I don't think Alonso will win the WDC next year. I bet it will get even more competitive.
#38
Race Director
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I'm no fanboy of Vettel or any current F1 driver for that matter. All the drivers have their flaws and even the greats like Senna acted like spoiled brats in their early years. In fact, compared to Senna at that age, Vettel seems more mature IMHO. But whatever bias some of you may have, since when does the driver with the most wins, most poles and ultimately the most points not deserve to be champion? ![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Cut him a break guys. How many of us would be so mature at 23 (much less win the F1 World Championship)? I'll take his alleged immaturity over Alonso's verifiable lack of class (was he just shaking his fist or giving Petrov the finger on the cool down?) any day of the week.
And no I don't think Alonso will win the WDC next year. I bet it will get even more competitive.
And no I don't think Alonso will win the WDC next year. I bet it will get even more competitive.
The issue made about Vettel not leading until the last race is a bit misleading, especially in light of his blown engine in Korea while leading and gapping the field. 25 points there, and it wouldn't have been nearly as close at it was.
I like Hamilton and hope he comes back strong next year and wins again. I also really like Button, who is fast but drives with great maturity, smoothness, and rarely does anything stupid. I'd love to see Schumi do well next year too; wouldn't that be an incredible story?
#39
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I was stunned by how rubbish Webber was this weekend. Alonso went off about 10 times in the last 40 laps and Webber was just hanging back watching it happen. If he had been closer and harassed him, he probably would have gotten past him. I think Webber just assumed that all was lost and gave up after he qualified so poorly.
#40
Rennlist Member
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All of the top drivers had DNFs due to bad luck and/or bad judgement. However, Vettel had more than Alonso and Webber.
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
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I was stunned by how rubbish Webber was this weekend. Alonso went off about 10 times in the last 40 laps and Webber was just hanging back watching it happen. If he had been closer and harassed him, he probably would have gotten past him. I think Webber just assumed that all was lost and gave up after he qualified so poorly.
At the end, Ferrari could and should have EASILY put a poor performing Alonso in 4th place to win it all! Was just all-around team F* up!
#42
Nordschleife Master
#43
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...but if he hadn't taken himself out of Belgium and Turkey, he wouldn't have been 3rd coming into the final race, having to rely on luck with Renault's best results of the season keeping Alonso and Webber back in the pack.
All of the top drivers had DNFs due to bad luck and/or bad judgement. However, Vettel had more than Alonso and Webber.
All of the top drivers had DNFs due to bad luck and/or bad judgement. However, Vettel had more than Alonso and Webber.
Against all the adversity, whether his own doing or his equipment, Vettel came back to win the championship. Webber had equal equipment all year and frankly couldn't get it done. Had Webber gotten pole or at least qualified well, he could very well be champion. But he didn’t. Yes I agree Ferrari called it wrong for Alonso. Regardless, had Alonso fought his way back to 4th, I would have been very impressed and happy to see him be champion again. He didn’t.
The only guy who did what he needed to do when it counted was Vettel.
#44
Rennlist Member
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Good points both. Personalities and my bias aside, it's hard to pick someone else who was consistently faster all year than Vettel and therefore more deserving, with the possible exception of Webber who frankly and unfortunately, from my POV, couldn't match his teammate's pace when it really counted in Abu Dabi, both in quali and the race.
The issue made about Vettel not leading until the last race is a bit misleading, especially in light of his blown engine in Korea while leading and gapping the field. 25 points there, and it wouldn't have been nearly as close at it was.
I like Hamilton and hope he comes back strong next year and wins again. I also really like Button, who is fast but drives with great maturity, smoothness, and rarely does anything stupid. I'd love to see Schumi do well next year too; wouldn't that be an incredible story?
The issue made about Vettel not leading until the last race is a bit misleading, especially in light of his blown engine in Korea while leading and gapping the field. 25 points there, and it wouldn't have been nearly as close at it was.
I like Hamilton and hope he comes back strong next year and wins again. I also really like Button, who is fast but drives with great maturity, smoothness, and rarely does anything stupid. I'd love to see Schumi do well next year too; wouldn't that be an incredible story?
I agree with Mike's points. I am also a McLaren fan and like both Hamilton and Button. They're both very good drivers with different approaches. At the end of the day Vettel had a really good season and deserved to win.
I also agree that 2011 should be a great season with more contenders (Mercedes, Renault). I don't think Alonso will be on top, and frankly given his continual poor sportsmanship, will be quite happy with that.
#45
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