Tiptronic Is Faster Than Manual?
03-08-2017, 04:31 AM
#76
I own a Manual, Tip & PDK car and can tell you they are vastly different driving cars, not in a bad way just very different.
PDK is millisecond shifting with rev matching on down shifts coupled with intelligent next gear selection while the Tip is a slush box (Torque Converter)
where you sequentially select the next hydraulic gear to shift too, not much different from most US/Import cars.
The PDK is everything I love about owning a manual shifter minus everything I hated about manual shifting.
EDIT: To answer your question, with the right driver I believe a manual is quicker. For traffic conditions the Tip wins.
PDK is millisecond shifting with rev matching on down shifts coupled with intelligent next gear selection while the Tip is a slush box (Torque Converter)
where you sequentially select the next hydraulic gear to shift too, not much different from most US/Import cars.
The PDK is everything I love about owning a manual shifter minus everything I hated about manual shifting.
EDIT: To answer your question, with the right driver I believe a manual is quicker. For traffic conditions the Tip wins.
I appreciate your answer.
I bought a Porsche 911 TIP Not because I had a "comfortable" in traffic jams. I searched 997.1 (not 997.2) and I wanted a transmission with steering wheel control. And that's what it was to Porsche in 2005.
The only response that is TIP. That's excellent.
Clearly technology improves and it is clear that the TIP and PDK did not act in the same way (mechanically). But, at the end of the day. Both the control wheel = both hands on the steering wheel! And this is the point
Beyond that (for those who do not understand and look in the Forum):
TIP at 997.1 gearbox is very reliable and strong
TIP at 997.1 have less problems IMS
TIP at 997.1 inexpensive maintenance
TIP at 997.1 this fast in driving the DD + track driving.
TIP at 997.1 with steering wheel control (TIPTRONIC S) = most similar to the PDK (in terms of shifting through gears)
TIP 997.1 is very common in models 997TT
TIP at 997.1 this feels great (a bit slow - but need to know to treat him right! In manual mode)
Incidentally, the PDK Gen 1 faster than the TIP. There is no dispute. Even more advanced. But you have to remember that 997.2 PDK comes with 385 hp and 997.1 comes with 355 hp ... People tend to forget about it ..
For those who do not know. PDK also comes in versions with buttons on the steering wheel (+ - / as TIP) and versions with paddles.
03-08-2017, 05:01 AM
#77
And I do love mine, yes. But the t*p overdose in this revived bit of the thread has almost got me to the point of wanting to sell her for a manual...
Last edited by 996tnz; 03-08-2017 at 03:45 PM.
03-08-2017, 02:08 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
Currently in the used car market, there are 2x the amount of manual cars than Tip cars for sale and manual cars are selling much slower than tip cars. If you consider supply and demand, you can pretty much factor that the there are more manual cars and not enough people willing to buy them.
We live in a free country where you can spend your money however you see fit. There is absolutely no reason for someone to bash on someone else over their style of driving and preference. Everybody has a different style and everyone is entitled to that. Some people drink their coffee black, others like sugar, and some like milk and sugar.
03-08-2017, 02:14 PM
#79
Burning Brakes
On topic article that I just read: http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...a-stick-shift/
I will admit, I am a luddite and have two manual 911s. I custom ordered a 5 series touring and picked it up in Munich just so I could have a manual wagon. But this article resonated with me. It also helped me understand why the new RS will not be available with a manual. I don't like that, but the reality that the article above explains helps me cope.
I will admit, I am a luddite and have two manual 911s. I custom ordered a 5 series touring and picked it up in Munich just so I could have a manual wagon. But this article resonated with me. It also helped me understand why the new RS will not be available with a manual. I don't like that, but the reality that the article above explains helps me cope.
03-09-2017, 10:02 AM
#80
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Tip car values are not higher than the equivalently equipped MT car - no way, no how. They are $5,000-$8,000 lower. People in the market for a 997 today only buy a Tip car for 1 reason, they don't have the budget to buy the 997.2 version of the same 997.1 car. I would bet that you would be hard pressed to find a 997.1 tip owner that specifically wanted a Tiptronic car over a PDK car and that it came down to budget and how they'd be using the car that made them not able to justify the $10,000-$15,000 additional for the 997.2 PDK equipped car, and that's absolutely fine.
For someone who is going to commute in the car, rarely drive it in a spirited manner or on a track, who has to share it with their wife or husband who can't drive stick, who has other financial obligations but still wants a 911, etc there's nothing wrong with a TIP equipped 911, but it's not similar to PDK, or the racing transmissions in a Ferrari or Lamborghini, or whatever.
It is very robust though, and the reason you can't buy a PDK in a Cayenne, not any Cayenne, even the newest one. My Cayenne Turbo S has a tip. It's fine in that car and I'd rather have the 550 HP of that model than the 400 HP of the GTS I looked at where I could get it with a MT, but for me, I know I don't want it in my 911s or other sports cars. Someone else may, but not me.
For someone who is going to commute in the car, rarely drive it in a spirited manner or on a track, who has to share it with their wife or husband who can't drive stick, who has other financial obligations but still wants a 911, etc there's nothing wrong with a TIP equipped 911, but it's not similar to PDK, or the racing transmissions in a Ferrari or Lamborghini, or whatever.
It is very robust though, and the reason you can't buy a PDK in a Cayenne, not any Cayenne, even the newest one. My Cayenne Turbo S has a tip. It's fine in that car and I'd rather have the 550 HP of that model than the 400 HP of the GTS I looked at where I could get it with a MT, but for me, I know I don't want it in my 911s or other sports cars. Someone else may, but not me.
Last edited by Petza914; 03-09-2017 at 12:05 PM.
03-09-2017, 10:43 AM
#81
Tip car values are nor higher than the equivalently equipped MT car - no way, no how. They are $5,000-$8,000 lower. People in the market for a 997 only buy a Tip car for 1 reason, they don't have the budget to buy the 997.2 version of the same 997.1 car. I would bet that you would be hard pressed to find a 997.1 tip owner that specifically wanted a Tiptronic car over a PDK car and that it came down to budget and how they'd be using g the car that made them not able to justify the $10,000-$15,000 additional for the PDK equipped car, and that's absolutely fine. For someone who is going to commute in the car, drive it in a spirited manner or on a track rarely, who has to share it with their wife or husband who can't drive stick, who has other financial obligations but still wants a 911, etc there's nothing wrong with a TIP equipped 911, but it's not similar to PDK, or the racing transmissions in a Ferrari or Lamborghini, or whatever. It is very robust though and the reason you can't buy a PDK in a Cayenne, not any Cayenne, even the newest one. My Cayenne Turbo S has a tip. It's fine in that car and I'd rather have the 550 HP of that model than the 400 HP of the GTS I looked at where I could get it with a MT, but for me, I know I don't want it in my 911s or other sports cars. Someone else may, but not me.
My answers:
Tip car values higher than the MT machine equipped equivalently - no way, no how.
They are $ 5,000 $ 8,000 lower.
997 market professionals only buy the machine tip one reason, they do not have the budget to buy the car version 997.2 997.1.
It is simply not true? Where did you get these figures? I bought recently. I can tell you that the prices are the same. The price depends on the vehicle and the vehicle's condition.
I'm sorry but you're exaggerating.
Those who bought 997.1 in 2005/2006/2007/2008 bought because he could not buy the PDK? Or that simply did not have the PDK ...!
I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find edge 997.1 Tiptronic really want a car on the PDK machine and it fell budget and how they will be using the car just added, I made them able to justify his $ 10,000 $ 15,000 more for a car equipped with PDK, which is fine.
There is no comparison to the PDK as there is no comparison between the PDK Gen 1 (less reliable) than the PDK Gen 2.
By the way, the former technical PORSCHE told me to stay away from the PDK 1 with high mileage that after 100km of the PDK begins to "slip" and "pops" and repair / replacement it is very expensive!
For who is going to drive the car, drive it vigorously or golf rarely need to share it with their partner who can not drive stick, who has financial obligations to others, but still want 911, etc. There Tip unacceptable equipped with 911, but he does not like PDK, or racing a Ferrari or Lamborghini, or whatever.
Three different transmission systems (TIP, PDK, F1). What they all share, it, all three, ** ** automatic with manual mode with steering wheel control!
Right. Mechanics is different (double clutch - torque converter). But, ultimately, everyone has a gear D! Automatic transmission car passes? + Manual mode. Be honest with yourself.
It is very difficult that's why you can not buy the PDK of the Cayenne, Cayenne even the best school. Cayenne Turbo S has my tip. All well and good in this car, and I prefer the 550 HP to 400 HP model than the GTS I looked at where I can get it with MT, but for me, I know I do not want it in my sports cars 911s or another. Perhaps someone else, but not me.
Everyone and his campaign.
I love the 911 Coupe with steering wheel control. Rear-wheel drive only. Carrera s just prefer a sport mode. It is important to me seater super sports. And I really like the shape of 997.1.
The following vehicle: GT3 RS PDK.
It is acceptable to you?
03-09-2017, 10:49 AM
#82
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I love that no matter what any of us who've been here for thousands of posts tell you, you come back with the same information, and all 12 of your posts are likely in this one thread, but I haven't bothered to check, though I'm pretty sure an F1 car doesn't have a "D" mode 
Enjoy your car - we're all Porsche brothers !
Enjoy your car - we're all Porsche brothers !
03-09-2017, 11:31 AM
#84
That's not correct...
Currently in the used car market, there are 2x the amount of manual cars than Tip cars for sale and manual cars are selling much slower than tip cars. If you consider supply and demand, you can pretty much factor that the there are more manual cars and not enough people willing to buy them.
We live in a free country where you can spend your money however you see fit. There is absolutely no reason for someone to bash on someone else over their style of driving and preference. Everybody has a different style and everyone is entitled to that. Some people drink their coffee black, others like sugar, and some like milk and sugar.
Currently in the used car market, there are 2x the amount of manual cars than Tip cars for sale and manual cars are selling much slower than tip cars. If you consider supply and demand, you can pretty much factor that the there are more manual cars and not enough people willing to buy them.
We live in a free country where you can spend your money however you see fit. There is absolutely no reason for someone to bash on someone else over their style of driving and preference. Everybody has a different style and everyone is entitled to that. Some people drink their coffee black, others like sugar, and some like milk and sugar.
My experience, like-for-like, tips are historically less expensive. When I was initially looking, I was including 997.1 in my search and every time I saw a listing for a car that was priced surprisingly low, it turned out to be tip. The most annoying thing was many dealers incorrectly put it as manual, so even filtering online results doesn't work.
As for the current balance of tips vs. manuals being listed, what were the original production numbers? I wouldn't be surprised if the current sales balance (which is not 2:1 but rather 3:2) reflects the original production mix. For turbos I understand there was a big performance gain in having a tip car due to being able to pre-spool to turbos more effectively, so I wouldn't be surprised if many more tips were produced. For carreras, the performance edge is towards the manual (despite any claims to contrary) so it makes sense that production numbers were shifted towards that. For PDK, this gets reversed, and is reflected in the production numbers again.
03-09-2017, 12:00 PM
#85
Did I bash anyone?
My experience, like-for-like, tips are historically less expensive. When I was initially looking, I was including 997.1 in my search and every time I saw a listing for a car that was priced surprisingly low, it turned out to be tip. The most annoying thing was many dealers incorrectly put it as manual, so even filtering online results doesn't work.
As for the current balance of tips vs. manuals being listed, what were the original production numbers? I wouldn't be surprised if the current sales balance (which is not 2:1 but rather 3:2) reflects the original production mix. For turbos I understand there was a big performance gain in having a tip car due to being able to pre-spool to turbos more effectively, so I wouldn't be surprised if many more tips were produced. For carreras, the performance edge is towards the manual (despite any claims to contrary) so it makes sense that production numbers were shifted towards that. For PDK, this gets reversed, and is reflected in the production numbers again.
My experience, like-for-like, tips are historically less expensive. When I was initially looking, I was including 997.1 in my search and every time I saw a listing for a car that was priced surprisingly low, it turned out to be tip. The most annoying thing was many dealers incorrectly put it as manual, so even filtering online results doesn't work.
As for the current balance of tips vs. manuals being listed, what were the original production numbers? I wouldn't be surprised if the current sales balance (which is not 2:1 but rather 3:2) reflects the original production mix. For turbos I understand there was a big performance gain in having a tip car due to being able to pre-spool to turbos more effectively, so I wouldn't be surprised if many more tips were produced. For carreras, the performance edge is towards the manual (despite any claims to contrary) so it makes sense that production numbers were shifted towards that. For PDK, this gets reversed, and is reflected in the production numbers again.
I looked for was more demand for TIP and TIP was more expensive than manual...
You say "I understand there was a big performance gain in having a tip car due to being able to pre-spool to turbos more effectively". This only proves the argument that it is tied to personal preference ..: /
Today. There are more preference to Steering wheel control.
See Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Porsche and more ..
The essence is changed. That's a fact.
You do not need to search statistics for car dealers and some were sold.
Look at what is produced today.
I love Manual. All my cars in the past were manual.
In Porsche, Ferrari and co. in I prefer steering wheel control (TIP / PDK / F1 It does not matter). And very important to me - Reliability.
If you pay attention. Except cars "concept". Sports cars and race cars. 100% are provided with two pedals.
Most importantly - enjoy it
03-09-2017, 03:07 PM
#86
I have to say that the TIP buttons on the steering wheel are a let down. The shift paddles are much better.
I bought the TIP because the wife test drove PDK and didn't like it. It wasn't as smooth as TIP. She drove the car for about 100 miles and decided that it wasn't as comfortable as her Lexus (too bumpy) and it wasn't her type of car.
So now I am the one driving it solely. If I knew that before hand, I would have bought a PDK.
In fact, if I knew what I do today, I would have bought the turbo to get the last Mezger motor at a affordable price.
I bought the TIP because the wife test drove PDK and didn't like it. It wasn't as smooth as TIP. She drove the car for about 100 miles and decided that it wasn't as comfortable as her Lexus (too bumpy) and it wasn't her type of car.
So now I am the one driving it solely. If I knew that before hand, I would have bought a PDK.
In fact, if I knew what I do today, I would have bought the turbo to get the last Mezger motor at a affordable price.
03-15-2017, 01:39 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
I would bet that you would be hard pressed to find a 997.1 tip owner that specifically wanted a Tiptronic car over a PDK car and that it came down to budget and how they'd be using the car that made them not able to justify the $10,000-$15,000 additional for the 997.2 PDK equipped car, and that's absolutely fine.
