cgfen

Pretend that you have never read a magazine article telling us how much they hate the 09 P car steering wheel PDK button configuration.
Do you really find it a non-intuitive implementation?

feel free to expound.

Me?
I find it very intuitive.
Push to go "faster"
Pull to go "slower"

Makes sense to me. And now thanks to an observation by a Roadie friend of mine, i know why.
This strategy mimics Campagnolo's handlebar mounted shift lever use. PUSH with my thumb to go "faster", Pull to go "slower".


I'm actually quite surprised that P caved to the conventional wisdom and is offering paddles now.

Craig

LlBr

Left and right hand paddles?

Left side is less (downshift), right side is more (upshift). Learned that in grade school with number lines and algebra/geometry.

Manual tranny?

Come to stop sign, eveything is slowing up, I had a lot of time to learn downshifting is forward into first gear.

That's what INTUITIVE means to me. BMW understands it with their SMG layouts. BTW they understand it for their Sportronic trannys (automatics) too.

I suppose you can train yourself to re-learn it Porsche's way. But WHY?!

Mike in CA

I don't think buttons are "non-intuitive". Push to go faster (change up) and pull to slow (change down) makes logical sense to me, and would likely make sense to anyone who had never driven a paddle shift before. Articles saying the buttons are counter-intuitive relative to paddles, where you pull on the right paddle to shift up and on the left paddle to shift down apparently don't really understand the meaning of the word intutitive. There's nothing "intuitive" about using a control on the right to go faster and one on the left to go slower.

OTOH, the buttons are "unconventional". They're different than the controls in most other paddle shift cars and require mental readjustment when using them. It's especially an issue if you own one of those other cars, like I do, and switch back and forth between vehicles. Even that isn't a deal breaker, IMO. As I've said in my posting about switching to a paddle shift wheel, the main issue is that the positioning and design of the buttons caused me to make inadvertent shifts on track. If not for that, I'd still probably be using those "intuitive" buttons.

robbonds

i think of it as push up and pull down
push to go up the gears and pull to go down the gears...i also like that i can use either hand.
I thought i would hate them but actually really like them. i had paddles on my cls63. I prefer porsches buttons

LlBr

Talking transmissions, right??

We should be talking associations for gear shifting only. Otherwise you can push brake pedal for slower, and pull emergency brake lever for slower. I dunno.

mdrums

I found the buttons to work fine for me as far as push to go up a gear and pull back to go down a gear...but the buttons did not fit my hand very well and especially at the track it is way to easy to up shift with the muscel for you thumb when you did not want to upshift.

I have the paddles in my car now and have 6 DE's on them and like the paddles much better for the track.

ADias

Sorry but that analogy does not work. Let's see:

Less means downshift? I counter that I may want to downshift to accelerate - therefore more.

Manual tranny - downshift move forward? Only half of the downshifts, the other half is moving backwards.

This is a tired topic. PAG set this system by itself and it makes sense. Only those who use other cars may get confused when they switch cars.

Re redundant buttons vs paddles (I said it before) it is the best system for tight mountain road courses.

PAG is not the only car co using this system. The Vette uses the same and others.

P.S. - Intuitive and BMW got it right? The first time I drove a 6 series (years ago) I downshifted when I thought it would be upshifting... it's all a convention.

LlBr

I would loooooove to see the top secret files over at Porsche HQ.

How many dealers complain or commented negatively that their customers do not get the shift patterns when they test drive PDK for the first time! How many test drives ended with at least a small amount of embarrassment or doubt because of shifting trouble?

THAT's gotta hurt the career of the guy at Porsche who pushed for it. Prolly the same guy who pushed for the SC wart.

Mike in CA

I must have missed that day in school. I don't see the left/less right/more correlation. Also, you're slowing when shifting from 5th to 4th and 3rd to 2nd with a stick yet you are pulling back on the gearshift each time, so at best the manual tranny example is a mixed bag.

In my Audi, the paddles are the conventional right/upshift left/downshift yet the gearshift in manual mode is forward for upshift and back for downshift just like the Porsche. At least in the Porsche operation of the toggles and gearshift are consistent with each other.

I had reasons for switching to the paddles, but they had to do with other things than a lack of intuitive operation.

LlBr

Nah. Whatever.

I stand by my claim.

My first manual tranny as a kid, I can see it now..., stop sign coming up..., foot on brake..., my only duty was to work on pushing the shift lever forward to down shift into first so I could get going again..

Done. Young driver brain is burned in: downshift is forward.

ADias

That's only true because those drivers came from driving other cars with the reverse pattern... Note though that the PAG pattern is the tip pattern which has been around for a long time (longer than the now fashionable pattern). For Porsche owners it was never confusing...

ADias

I see... you are pre-wired to only downshift into 1st, 3rd and 5th. All others are always upshifts.

LlBr

You are not quite getting it. With PDK You're not going to think about which gear you are in like with a manual.

Lemme try again: You are going fast WITH PDK and you need to slow up and drop down a gear while feeling negative G, what are you going to do?

Shove the sukker forward! Your body is going that direction anyway. Forward means downshift into a corner, backwards means up. Again: not a manual tranny.

Helps when braking and getting thrown forward, forward naturally results in down shifting. When the car is jerking you back into the seat you are accelerating and realize that yanking backwards means upshifting. .

You're not going to think about which gear you are in like with a manual. You do not have to note the gear position like you do with a manual!

That's stuff which adds to the manual being slower; more brain power is used in adding the extra step. Not much, but more, it all adds up.

I'd like to meet the guy who's getting thrown forward when braking hard into a corner who naturally wants to pull back on the PDK shift lever to downshift while he's slowing down and setting up to get into the turn.

Anyway, not worth us getting upset about it. No big deal!

91469972

I don't have any issue's at all. My Q7 S-Line has the Paddle Shift similar to the Porsche option but I like the fact that on the standard it is either push or pull on either side.

ADias

Simple: I have a choice of 2 redundant buttons on the steering wheel. I can pull either button without having to find where any particular button is. Simple, powerful!

If I decide to use the gear lever (rarely) I just pull it backwards. Get it? 'Pull' the lever backwards, the same way that the steering wheel buttons are 'pulled' backwards. It just makes sense.

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