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Talk me into RWD

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Old 05-18-2010, 02:10 PM
  #16  
sandwedge
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Originally Posted by docfink
I feel the C4S is necessary: Those wide rear fenders seal the deal for me--AWD not withstanding!
Took a while but somebody finally said it. I bet good money that a majority of C4/C4S owners bought their cars for the extra 2" of tail width than out of concern they'll lose control without AWD. Now look for the inevitable transformation of these discussions - whether or not you can really see the difference between the narrow and the wide body....
Old 05-18-2010, 04:48 PM
  #17  
cbzzoom
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Both cars are very safe and easy to control if you drive reasonably.

In a C4 it's almost impossible to get the back out and crash even if you want to.

In a C2 you can spin the car and wipe out if you really try.
Old 05-18-2010, 05:40 PM
  #18  
VGM911
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Originally Posted by Edgy01
Having come from the older series of 911 cars (with the 60% - 40% weight bias to the rear) with no special traction control or PASM capabilities, I had to learn how to handle a heavily rear biased automobile. It's particularly challenging with more than average power, and with adverse road conditions (wet or snowy). That being said, the latest generation of 911, the 997, has very much dialed out that tricky handling. Have you ever really LOOKED at the width of the rear tires on these things? The tire width, along with PASM and ABS brakes has virtually eliminated the need for AWD in a 911. Porsche was forced to make all their turbo models since the 965 into AWD cars because there are a lot of people out there with more money than driving skills--something they learned with the 930 as secretaries borrowed their boss' cars and then wrapped them around trees--and then sued Porsche for making inherently unsafe cars. Hogwash! Once you understand how to drive a rear drive, rear weight biased automobile, you will eventually learn why that combination has been and remains so popular in Formula 1 racing. And in Porsche driving. I can't tell you how many times I have seen people assume that they can do more with a 4WD or AWD car in adverse road conditions. These are the people who have to have their vehicles towed out of ditches after a snowstorm. The RWD guys keep things dialed in and don't get tempted to do things that will result in an accident. I don't know about you, but I can much better control a RWD car with engine braking than I can engine braking an AWD car.

What you really should do is go out and drive both. But remember that you gain a lot more complexity and weight with a AWD Porsche, and that results in higher maintenance costs over the life of the car. Also, you pay a price in the loss of trunk space--on cars with already small storage space.

In retrospect, I would never change a thing about ordering a 2WD Porsche 997. I laugh every time I see a Carrera 4 in Southern California. What were they thinking? I believe most of them think that 4 is better (it's more expensive) and thus they have to have that, without knowing a thing about the 997.

Ultimately, the real danger in the wintertime are the OTHER drivers out there on the roads. Some 997 drivers do drive their cars in the wintertime and they feel more confident with the AWD on such roads. I maintain that with proper snow tires (not all season mud/snows) and a RWD Porsche you are nearly invincible until higher snow levels pretty much shut down all Porsche movement.

(Don't let my location confuse you. I have lived and driven in Germany, Colorado, Oregon, Wyoming, Utah, Oklahoma (the ice state) and even Iceland, and prefer the simplicity of 2WD).
Well thought-out, and well written.

Same line of thinking I used when buying my last Audi TT, which was front-wheel drive rather than Quattro (AWD). The FWD car was lighter in weight (by nearly 300 pounds), had a larger trunk, a bit better acceleration and gas mileage, and perhaps even shorter braking distances.

Two-wheel drive was never seen by me as a disadvantage in any weather conditions.

That said, proponents of Audi's Quattro system claim that in a FWD car, we're asking the front tires to do a lot (accelerate, brake, and turn) and that spreading the power to all four wheels lessens the load on the front wheels, making for a better handling car. True? In theory, it sounds like an incremental benefit, but not enough to sway me.
Old 05-18-2010, 05:42 PM
  #19  
Mike in CA
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Each of my Porsches has been RWD; where I live AWD is completely unnecessary. That said, and as good as the traction in a RWD Porsche is, if I was buying a DD in an area where it snowed regularly, I would strongly consider the AWD car. You can listen to all the anectdotal evidence you want, but the fact is that the AWD car will have a performance advantage in those conditions. Period. The only argument to be had is whether that advantage is necessary or meaningfull for the kind of driving YOU do, and therefore worth the penalties in cost and complexity. Good luck with your choice.
Old 05-18-2010, 07:54 PM
  #20  
alexb76
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA
Each of my Porsches has been RWD; where I live AWD is completely unnecessary. That said, and as good as the traction in a RWD Porsche is, if I was buying a DD in an area where it snowed regularly, I would strongly consider the AWD car. You can listen to all the anectdotal evidence you want, but the fact is that the AWD car will have a performance advantage in those conditions. Period. The only argument to be had is whether that advantage is necessary or meaningfull for the kind of driving YOU do, and therefore worth the penalties in cost and complexity. Good luck with your choice.
Couldn't say it better! Absolutely spot on!
Old 05-18-2010, 10:25 PM
  #21  
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The biggest thing holding me back from a C4 is the cost of the car. I've been searching the used market a lot lately and the C4 is usually around $7,000 more expensive than an equivalent C2. It's hard to justify paying that much more for AWD when I'm not even sure it's that necessary. That kind of savings would pay for two years of insurance.
Old 05-18-2010, 10:53 PM
  #22  
akim47
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There is a used 2006 white C4 listed on autotrader for $45K located in Northridge, CA. Fly down and take that baby home! I didn't post the link because it was too long. C4 cars don't seem to sell very well here in CA because as a previous poster said, it's unnecessary... I do see quite a few C4S cars however, here in SoCal because people have the money to spend on it... Although it's only a bit wider than the NB 997s, you can tell the difference, I'm just not sure it's a $10K plus difference...

I think most people here if given the choice, would spend the money on a C2S... you get a lot more for the money (3.8, PASM, brakes, etc.) rather than a regular carrera with a big ***...
Old 05-19-2010, 01:05 AM
  #23  
brendo
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Originally Posted by cbzzoom
Both cars are very safe and easy to control if you drive reasonably.

In a C4 it's almost impossible to get the back out and crash even if you want to.

In a C2 you can spin the car and wipe out if you really try.
zoom. we've obviously never met. i could easily crash a C4

regarding the discussion, lots of passion. i grew up in western pennsylvania with lots of snow and we didn't "need" AWD.

blah blah. let's face it, AWD is nice and can be lots of fun if you prefer it. we also didn't have ABS but i sure like having that now.

it would be nice to have in my porsche but i opted for a C2S because that's my preference. personally, i like the reduced weight and complexity and, dare i say "purity". of course, i also have a PDK, so think what you will.

i thought a lot about getting a C4S to take my kids to ski lessons but i really think i'd have more issues with clearance than with traction. besides, i can put gnarly snow tires and do it with this car...

making this decision really is a good problem to have.
Old 05-19-2010, 05:10 PM
  #24  
997_rich
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+1 for RWD in moderately snowy climate areas (~30 days or less of snow per year in the road)

If it's snowing so bad you can't drive with RWD, chances are you won't want to drive the AWD either. The snow will probably be deep enough to be trashing the front bodywork.

One other thing to consider is that AWD only helps you accelerate and handle better. AWD will not help you stop faster!
Old 05-19-2010, 10:26 PM
  #25  
tcouture
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+1 for RWD.

AWD is really nice but not necessary. IMHO you will usually run out of ground clearance before you run out of traction. RWD or AWD, when the car is jacked up on a snow bank, you can't go anywhere.

I just use the beater when there is lots of snow.

T.
Old 05-19-2010, 10:32 PM
  #26  
JohnnyBahamas
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2006 article on the C4S vs. C2S from Autoweek mag.

To the point quote from the article, "...the rear-drive 997 already is one of the world’s greatest driver’s cars. Installing awd is kind of like adding a few extra kilos of plutonium to an ICBM just for the heck of it. Yeah, it’ll make an even bigger bang when it goes off, but it’s overkill."

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2006...#ixzz0oQf6zJCz

Get the C2S. I've owned both and though the C4S was a freak of nature in terms of grip the C2S never flew off the road either.

Put cold weather tires on in the cold weather and all will be fine.

Now, on the turbo, with all of that power to get to the road surface, it's a different story.
Old 05-19-2010, 11:57 PM
  #27  
Holli82
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RWD .......wait I live in the desert. 1" of snow in 10 years. Maybe I'll sit this one out.
Old 05-20-2010, 03:19 AM
  #28  
ericthepilot
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Default Wider is better

Originally Posted by brendo

making this decision really is a good problem to have.
Of course the complexity of this discussion is, what looks good to you.
Hence your buying the car your eyes like the most ...

For me the Widest Rear End on the 997 is sooooo sexy and the Targa 4S makes it looks so good

what a great luxury problem we have on this BB.
C2 C4 drive it under any condition sensible !

ENJOY
Old 05-20-2010, 04:21 AM
  #29  
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Start with good snows. Narrwer is better. This will improve your stop and turn and safety. The Awd puts the power down in low adhesion conditions. I love t n snow
Old 05-20-2010, 09:50 AM
  #30  
atr911
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I drove all winter in my C2 (Canada Winter...). I would pull away from 4wd trucks at stop lights. It's really the best of both worlds. You get the weight over the drive wheels that gives wonderful traction.

Porsche has gone to great lengths to dial out the oversteer and unless you start messing with suspension to bring some of it back you'll find that a 997 is a VERY well balanced car. Couple this with traction and stability control and advanced ABS software and you've got one of the most stable cars on the road today (be it AWD or RWD).

All this said, my perfect daily driver would be a PDK turbo cab (AWD) and I'd have a 6SPD GT3 for fun. If I could only choose one car, the best comprimise for track and daily duty is a C2S (6 SPD or PDK, you pick).



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