Minok

So being curious, I finally asked USAA to fork over a copy of the policy so I could see what it all contains in it as far as exclusions. What I got was, of course a non-searchable, low-res scan of a paper document. Kudos. But not detered I went in search of what the exlusions were.

So the primary exclusion of interest (beyond the "loss of equipment designed or used to evade or avoid the enforcement of motor vehicle laws") was the "loss of any vehicle while it is being operated in, or in practice for, any driving contest or challenge".

Suitably vague to give them plenty of room to exclude most fun activities.

Later on, there is a more elaborate set of what might be included in that definition:

"A driving contest or challeng includes, but is not limited to:

1) A competition against other people, vehicles or time; or (isnt this our daily commute? - Get out of my way you crazy driver... I need to pass that semi before my exit.. damn I'm almost late...speed up... )

2) An activity that challenges the speed or handling characteristics of a vehicle, or improves or demonstrates driving skills, provided the activity occurs on a track or course that is closed form nonparticipants."

Its that second item that really seem odd to me.

It says the insurance excludes any activity that improves driving skills provided it occurs on a course that is closed from nonparticipants. Really?

So if I go to a driving class that is instructed on a closed course.. then that is NOT covered.

But if I take a performance driving class that is run in a Walmart parking lot, or on the open road, or the course is open to anyone who wants to just drive around, THEN its covered? Really?

I guess this is where the "not limited to" part comes in.
The exclusion says they dont cover any driver training classes on a closed course. But the 'not limited to' bit means it also can exclude driver training on the highway as well.

So who wants to do some laps at the church parking lot next Wednesday!

Mike in CA

It all makes sense when you remember that the primary reason for the existence of insurance companies is not to benefit you, but to benefit themselves.

russo

It's really amazing how we have come to hate capitalism in all its forms. Insurance companies, just like any business, answer to its shareholders, which by the way, are most hardworking folk.

theporscheguy

Watched a friend wrinkle (I'm being kind) his car on track during a drivers education event and the insurance covered it. Had it been an actual race they would not have covered removing, the wrinkles.

alexb76

Off topic, but isn't it because it's gone too far? that competition that should regulate a capitlist market and drive costs/fees down has been non-existent in many industries such as insurance, banking, oil? hence the call for regulation?

I don't see too many people complain about capitalist behaviour of high tech or even automotive industry (apart from unions at Ford/GM).

Dave in Oregon

I checked with my USAA agent regarding my insurance being in effect for a DE (Driver Education) event put on by Golden Gate Region of PCA. I was told that my insurance WOULD cover the event as long as there was no wheel-to-wheel racing or timed runs..................

Jim W

When pressed, USAA has confirmed that they will not cover our DE events.

Mike in CA

I certainly don't "hate capitalism in all it's forms"; I'm personally heavily invested in the success of the capitalist system. Saying that insurance companies primary concern is for their bottom line (and, yes, for their shareholders) not for their insured, is a simple matter of economic fact. I think it's really amazing that we've become so polarized that we can't even admit to the obvious if there's any chance doing so might challenge our ideology or political perspective.

Tone

I've used USAA for years. They are hands down the best insurance co. out there AND the most cost effective. I don't blame them for not wanting to cover DEs, I don't believe none of the other companies do either. I've seen many cars totaled at DEs. There's 1 turn at Seattle Raceways that eats $1M in damage per year. I wish I was insured at DEs, but I don't think USAA is being unreasonable.

russo

Free markets work best when government doesn't stick its nose into it. A good example is our auto industry. Government with the help of unions, in the name of taming wild capitalists, destroys the very industry it purports to protect the general public from, tell that to Detroit. The high tech industry, until now, has benefitted from little government interference; however, that is likely to change, again government is getting ready to meddle in the high speed internet arena. Your points on insurance, banking, energy, these industries do not operate in a free market, you can't buy insurance across state lines, and insurance companies are very regulated by the states they operate in. Banking, we all know about the debacle of Freddie and Fannie and how it coerced the banking industry to lower their lending standards and open the flood gates for the politically connected to make hundreds of millions of dollars. The energy sectors are literally strangled by regulation, no nuclear, no drilling, oh, and before we forget, let's eliminate the coal industry. Liberal ideology's greatest sin is to falsely advocate for the common folk, when it is upon their very backs that it yields it power. To conclude, the greatest civilization in mankind's history was founded on capitalism, yes, the good old U.S.A.
I know, we are way off topic, I couldn't help myself.

stevepow

PCA has DE Insurance available: http://pcahpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Default.aspx

I can see why a normal policy, to be cost effective, won't provide that sort of coverage.

alexb76

I imagine you're a republican, right?

Kidding aside, I agree with most of what you're saying, but have to turn the argument around; the reason for all of those regulations is the mere fact of the way such industries collude on pricing and there's no true competition in those segements at all. The fact there isn't much government interference in IT industry, is that there is proper compeition there.

Most insurance is sold to larger under-writters and is ultimately owned by Prudential/AIG, etc... and in banking, wow, I can't believe you think it's all Fannie/Freddie to blame... all those credit default swaps by Goldman Sachs being insured by AIG had nothing to do with it I guess. The whole industry fell on its face for lack of regulation and the fact that anyone off the street could get a loan. You said they lowered their standards, I guess there was NOT any regulation to prevent that from happening, right? Here in Canada, there's tough regulation around who can issue loans, and specific minimum requirements for mortgages and hence we NEVER got into the same housing crisis, foreclosures, etc...

Anyways, my whole point was, when certain industries abuse technology (i.e. gas price collusion), go through loop holes in the regulations to screw people, pay themselves billions in compensation, and then when they screw up, expect the general public to bail them out... the whole capitalist system comes into question, hence where we are now!

TOTALLY APOLOGIZE... didn't wanna hijack this thread.

russo

Yeah, but wasn't it the government to prod the banks to lower their standards? And of course, once the market has been coerced the sharks get a large chunk of the market? Did we forget about the, if memory serves correct, the affordability housing act enacted during Carter, expanded under Clinton and went crazy during the last decade? The tech industry is now fighting its initial battle with the government, high speed internet ring a bell?

alexb76

Hmm, did u miss GW Bush name (and his ownership society) intentionally?

We mostly agree actually... just from different points of view. Let's give the thread back!

hlee1169

When Republicans do it, it's ok. /snark

Capitalism, by definition, is to maximize profits. Don't expect insurance companies to look out for you, the consumers.