Dang! Porsche 918 Spyder to be previewed March 2.
03-02-2010, 03:28 PM
#31
Race Director
driver I no longer feel that I have to prove myself at every stoplight. Of course it would be a waste to buy this car and not really drive it, and playing up the 78mpg is just a way for Porsche to define the outer edge of the envelope. But if you could drive it moderately and return even half of that 78mpg, that would be pretty impressive for a car of this potential, don't you think?You mention that the hybridization is there just to "appease the eco crowd". Are you saying that there is no value, other than to the greenies, in a car that has this level of performance, AND can return 35-40mpg when driven moderately? You wouldn't like it if your current Porsche had the same or better performance AND got 40% better gas mileage? Why not?
03-02-2010, 04:09 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
Sometimes I drive my car gently, and sometimes *****-to-the-wall. As an "experienced" driver I no longer feel that I have to prove myself at every stoplight. Of course it would be a waste to buy this car and not really drive it, and playing up the 78mpg is just a way for Porsche to define the outer edge of the envelope. But if you could drive it moderately and return even half of that 78mpg, that would be pretty impressive for a car of this potential, don't you think?
You mention that the hybridization is there just to "appease the eco crowd". Are you saying that there is no value, other than to the greenies, in a car that has this level of performance, AND can return 35-40mpg when driven moderately? You wouldn't like it if your current Porsche had the same or better performance AND got 40% better gas mileage? Why not?
driver I no longer feel that I have to prove myself at every stoplight. Of course it would be a waste to buy this car and not really drive it, and playing up the 78mpg is just a way for Porsche to define the outer edge of the envelope. But if you could drive it moderately and return even half of that 78mpg, that would be pretty impressive for a car of this potential, don't you think?You mention that the hybridization is there just to "appease the eco crowd". Are you saying that there is no value, other than to the greenies, in a car that has this level of performance, AND can return 35-40mpg when driven moderately? You wouldn't like it if your current Porsche had the same or better performance AND got 40% better gas mileage? Why not?
To the second point: As a sports car I would pass the hybrid components. Too much added complication and mass to justify a minimal overall reduction in gas consumption. This is not my DD, therefore gas mileage is not a consideration. Besides, there's plenty of oil in the free world - our politicians just keep it locked up. From a pollution perspective a gas powered car like the 997 emits cleaner air than the LA atmosphere on a smog day - smog created by natural conditions and observed for thousands of years, well before cars were around.
03-02-2010, 04:30 PM
#34
I hate to admit it but this is our future for now. I am actually glad to see that it is possible to have 78 mpg out of a car that does 0-60 3.2 Sc's. How much does a Prius get in mpg. Who wants to drive one of those when if you have the money and desire you can drive a Porsche that is just a green Eco-friendly as a Prius.
You can bet that this is just a start. They will be able to scale back the hp and cost hopefully that we don't all have come up with 400K to have a car that has performance and MPG.I am at this time not interested in a Hybrid 911 but If in 10 years thats a choice it maybe our only option. The green Police will not go away. Times are changing right before our eyes so quick we are missing quite a bit.
I says Hats off to Porsche I would love to see them get really aggressive in the future on their designs. I may only have one more High End Sports Car in my lifetime for a new one after the Turbo S. I am sure one of my four children would love to inherent a car like the 918 Spyder.
You can bet that this is just a start. They will be able to scale back the hp and cost hopefully that we don't all have come up with 400K to have a car that has performance and MPG.I am at this time not interested in a Hybrid 911 but If in 10 years thats a choice it maybe our only option. The green Police will not go away. Times are changing right before our eyes so quick we are missing quite a bit.
I says Hats off to Porsche I would love to see them get really aggressive in the future on their designs. I may only have one more High End Sports Car in my lifetime for a new one after the Turbo S. I am sure one of my four children would love to inherent a car like the 918 Spyder.
03-02-2010, 05:01 PM
#35
Race Director
To the second point: As a sports car I would pass the hybrid components. Too much added complication and mass to justify a minimal overall reduction in gas consumption. This is not my DD, therefore gas mileage is not a consideration. Besides, there's plenty of oil in the free world - our politicians just keep it locked up. From a pollution perspective a gas powered car like the 997 emits cleaner air than the LA atmosphere on a smog day - smog created by natural conditions and observed for thousands of years, well before cars were around.
03-02-2010, 05:16 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Says Wolfgang Dürheimer, board member in charge of R&D: “This car can lap the Nürburgring faster than the Carrera GT. At the same time, it averages 78 mpg when driven gently. Are we going to build it? We will definitely bring some blank sales contracts to the Geneva show, but it’s too early to talk pricing, production volumes, and timing.
03-02-2010, 05:19 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
To the first point: The 997.2 is capable of 27MPG. What is your average MPG? Mine is certainly not 27MPG, not even close.
To the second point: As a sports car I would pass the hybrid components. Too much added complication and mass to justify a minimal overall reduction in gas consumption. This is not my DD, therefore gas mileage is not a consideration. Besides, there's plenty of oil in the free world - our politicians just keep it locked up. From a pollution perspective a gas powered car like the 997 emits cleaner air than the LA atmosphere on a smog day - smog created by natural conditions and observed for thousands of years, well before cars were around.
To the second point: As a sports car I would pass the hybrid components. Too much added complication and mass to justify a minimal overall reduction in gas consumption. This is not my DD, therefore gas mileage is not a consideration. Besides, there's plenty of oil in the free world - our politicians just keep it locked up. From a pollution perspective a gas powered car like the 997 emits cleaner air than the LA atmosphere on a smog day - smog created by natural conditions and observed for thousands of years, well before cars were around.
Actually, I get pretty close to the EPA estimates of 19-26 depending on the kind of driving I'm doing. Into and around town I get about 17+mpg and on the freeway cruising at 75 in 7th with PDK I get about 25. I don't think it's fair to count the back-road blasts or track excursions into the equation. I'm not sure how that's relevant to the original point about performance/efficiency of the 918(I guess you think Porsche is just making up the numbers?) but there you go.
Too much there to try and respond to without going way off topic. If you don't want/need more efficiency with the same performance, that's your choice. And I just don't know what to say to someone who thinks that buying all that oil from the Middle East was/is a scam, or that cars and people haven't caused the vast majority of smog in LA. So, cheers!
Too much there to try and respond to without going way off topic. If you don't want/need more efficiency with the same performance, that's your choice. And I just don't know what to say to someone who thinks that buying all that oil from the Middle East was/is a scam, or that cars and people haven't caused the vast majority of smog in LA. So, cheers!
I agree in principal, that IF, we can burn less gas to have the same performance, it's a GREAT thing!
At the same time, those cars (Hybrid, Electric) should be more so as your DD, while for your sports/track car, less is more!
So, I guess it depends on how we define 911? Is it DD, or weekend/track car? For me it's both, so I could use some better MPG. While a GT3 is pure weekend/track car and if I had one, wouldn't care less about gas mileage.
Cheers!
03-02-2010, 05:40 PM
#39
Race Director
03-02-2010, 06:51 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
I hate to admit it but this is our future for now. I am actually glad to see that it is possible to have 78 mpg out of a car that does 0-60 3.2 Sc's. How much does a Prius get in mpg. Who wants to drive one of those when if you have the money and desire you can drive a Porsche that is just a green Eco-friendly as a Prius.
You can bet that this is just a start. They will be able to scale back the hp and cost hopefully that we don't all have come up with 400K to have a car that has performance and MPG.I am at this time not interested in a Hybrid 911 but If in 10 years thats a choice it maybe our only option. The green Police will not go away. Times are changing right before our eyes so quick we are missing quite a bit.
I says Hats off to Porsche I would love to see them get really aggressive in the future on their designs. I may only have one more High End Sports Car in my lifetime for a new one after the Turbo S. I am sure one of my four children would love to inherent a car like the 918 Spyder.
You can bet that this is just a start. They will be able to scale back the hp and cost hopefully that we don't all have come up with 400K to have a car that has performance and MPG.I am at this time not interested in a Hybrid 911 but If in 10 years thats a choice it maybe our only option. The green Police will not go away. Times are changing right before our eyes so quick we are missing quite a bit.
I says Hats off to Porsche I would love to see them get really aggressive in the future on their designs. I may only have one more High End Sports Car in my lifetime for a new one after the Turbo S. I am sure one of my four children would love to inherent a car like the 918 Spyder.
03-02-2010, 06:54 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
You mention that the hybridization is there just to "appease the eco crowd". Are you saying that there is no value, other than to the greenies, in a car that has this level of performance, AND can return 35-40mpg when driven moderately? You wouldn't like it if your current Porsche had the same or better performance AND got 40% better gas mileage? Why not?
As soon as industry will finally find a solution for preper batteries I will be first to ditch gasoline fueled cars in favor of wicked torque of electric motor.
03-02-2010, 07:36 PM
#43
Race Director
Why not? Because there are no good batteries yet in the world to keep those electric motors running for long enough time.
As soon as industry will finally find a solution for preper batteries I will be first to ditch gasoline fueled cars in favor of wicked torque of electric motor.
As soon as industry will finally find a solution for preper batteries I will be first to ditch gasoline fueled cars in favor of wicked torque of electric motor.
03-02-2010, 08:55 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
That's why I said if performance were "the same or better" along with that 40% mpg improvement; that would obviously have to include better battery performance (including range, reasonable recharge times, etc) as well. I know we're not there yet but clearly progress is being made. That said, if some form of the power train they're describing for the 918 was available in a less expensive and perhaps somewhat less powerful package at a 911 price, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
ICE: 400HP 3200lb
Hybrid: 400HP 3500lb
I would pick the ICE. Wait a minute... I essentially already have that.
03-02-2010, 09:47 PM
#45
Race Director
So let's adjust the numbers based on what Porsche says they've actually done with the 918. The 918 is 240 lbs heavier than the Carrera GT, with a total output of 718hp, or about 20% more than a GT. So let's extrapolate; a 20% horsepower advantage to the Hybrid 911, with the smaller less powerful hybrid package coming in at, say, around 150 pounds more. Now your choice is between these 2 911's:ICE: 400HP 3200lb 26MPG
Hybrid: 480HP 3350lb 40mpg
Might make the choice a little more difficult, don't you think?