Learned something new about my pdk
02-10-2010, 01:17 PM
#31
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02-10-2010, 01:24 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Yes, sometimes. In an ideal world I would have a manny 993 RUF Turbo for a mistress - and I would "step out" often. 
I would probably miss PDK if I had only a manual too. They both can be very enjoyable and I don't see any point or need to get polarized over it - can't relate to that at all.
I would probably miss PDK if I had only a manual too. They both can be very enjoyable and I don't see any point or need to get polarized over it - can't relate to that at all.
02-10-2010, 01:35 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Well, not period really - as stated, in the kickdown program, it should upshift at the rev limit. Although I don't think I have had an opportunity to test that as normally when I have kicked down, it is like on Star Trek and I see all the stars blur, and the next thing I realize is the tach is on a mission to heaven and the car is already going plenty fast enough before it ever gets near the top.
It's a challenge really to find roads where half of what this car can do, performance wise, can be tested - gotta save up for a trip to Birmingham.
It's a challenge really to find roads where half of what this car can do, performance wise, can be tested - gotta save up for a trip to Birmingham.
02-10-2010, 02:02 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
02-10-2010, 02:05 PM
#36
Nordschleife Master
02-10-2010, 03:27 PM
#37
Seems that rationale might be behind the rather quick shift points of the PDK transimission? To some who've had Porsches for years, shifting at much lower RPMs goes against what they've been accustomed to. That's the beauty of the PDK and Porsche engineering. The choice is yours, as Dr. Dias has pointed out. As he said, if you would like to be in 6th gear at 30 mph, please do so. I don't see how any sarcasm can be culled from that post
With tougher emissions and mandated higher fuel economy, Porsche engineers have developed more than adequate ways to address these needs. The driver can use these "tools" any way he/she chooses to. Prosche has done it's job by giving you a vehicle that complies with various regulations.
02-10-2010, 03:32 PM
#38
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Guys, there is no reason to get emotional about PDK shift maps.
FWIW, I do the same as ADiaz. At low speeds in a high gear I can feel additional vibration from the engine - which suggests "lugging" to me. Now it is likely that Porsche engineers have figured all this out - but not a certainty. They have made a number of mistakes in their engines before - ask me how I know, I've had them all.
There is also a strong incentive to minimize fuel consumption and decrease carbon emissions (a taxable item in certain markets). Fuel economy is maximized when the engine is "lugged" i.e. lowest possible revs in the highest gear. So, did they make a compromise? I can't say. What I can say is that if I sense added vibration from my engine I assume it is lugging. I hate the feel - perhaps I am too sensitive to mechanical things. That's why I drive in M except on long highway cruises when 7th gear at 75 MPH feels OK.
Regards,
FWIW, I do the same as ADiaz. At low speeds in a high gear I can feel additional vibration from the engine - which suggests "lugging" to me. Now it is likely that Porsche engineers have figured all this out - but not a certainty. They have made a number of mistakes in their engines before - ask me how I know, I've had them all.
There is also a strong incentive to minimize fuel consumption and decrease carbon emissions (a taxable item in certain markets). Fuel economy is maximized when the engine is "lugged" i.e. lowest possible revs in the highest gear. So, did they make a compromise? I can't say. What I can say is that if I sense added vibration from my engine I assume it is lugging. I hate the feel - perhaps I am too sensitive to mechanical things. That's why I drive in M except on long highway cruises when 7th gear at 75 MPH feels OK.
Regards,
02-10-2010, 03:33 PM
#39
Poseur
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02-10-2010, 07:28 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Jay
02-10-2010, 09:45 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Big problem with this discussion - everyone has a different idea about what lugging the engine is.
One would like to think that PAG would not program in a condition that would put undue wear on the engine - which is what a non-sport Chrono used in Auto would be - and I am sure somewhere there's that car and that driver.
But, the car making process is not just about engineering, it is about regulations, share-holders, politics, marketing, and all sorts of non-car crap. Again, we'd probably love to think that we are "buying" our way around some of that with it being a relatively expensive, specialized, sports car.
Yet, the cynic in me says that might be a pile of wishful thinking. It's more fun anyway in Sport - SC should just not be an option with PDK - the clock/wart maybe, but not the programming.
That said, I have never felt like the engine and transmission were so out of sync that there was not smooth power available to move the car. Which makes me wonder what you guys mean by lugging. The definition of "RPMs are lower than I expect for this gear" seems arbitrary. Consider if the car had only 3 gears rather than 7 - RPMs would be a lot higher for any given gear's top range, right? What if the car had 15 gears? Then what?
Anyway, I'm going with "if it feels good, it is good" and it is ...damn good to me.
One would like to think that PAG would not program in a condition that would put undue wear on the engine - which is what a non-sport Chrono used in Auto would be - and I am sure somewhere there's that car and that driver.
But, the car making process is not just about engineering, it is about regulations, share-holders, politics, marketing, and all sorts of non-car crap. Again, we'd probably love to think that we are "buying" our way around some of that with it being a relatively expensive, specialized, sports car.
Yet, the cynic in me says that might be a pile of wishful thinking. It's more fun anyway in Sport - SC should just not be an option with PDK - the clock/wart maybe, but not the programming.
That said, I have never felt like the engine and transmission were so out of sync that there was not smooth power available to move the car. Which makes me wonder what you guys mean by lugging. The definition of "RPMs are lower than I expect for this gear" seems arbitrary. Consider if the car had only 3 gears rather than 7 - RPMs would be a lot higher for any given gear's top range, right? What if the car had 15 gears? Then what?
Anyway, I'm going with "if it feels good, it is good" and it is ...damn good to me.
02-10-2010, 11:44 PM
#43
No they don't. The tip, left to itself, is programmed for fuel economy and stays in the 1500 - 2500 rpm range (for the most part if not driven agressively). Porsche engineers do not conisder this lugging the engine. Only the conceited pseudo-engineers on RL do.
02-11-2010, 12:07 AM
#44
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Question Dan, do you know if the PDK's in the new 2010 Turbo's do the same in regards to downshifting or upshifting in an effort to protect the engine? I checked the manual couldn't find any place that this is mentioned. If it does exist I think it's a good feature. From what I've read the rev limiter is still effective in auto as well as manual mode.
Jay
Jay
Porsche most likely programs these PDK transmissions for performance as opposed to fuel economy. (Isn't that why the Porsche is purchased?) But a conservative driver can certainly make his conservative nature known by the car as it learns that driver's driving characteristics. If you by nature are a conservative driver, shifting early without winding it out, the PDK will keep note of that. Of course, driving a turbo 911 is significantly different than driving a 997 without a turbo. There is so much excessive torque in a turbo motor than there is little to gain by winding it out.
