Newbie questions - Carrera 4
01-24-2010, 01:28 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
I'm strongly considering a Carrera 4, please excuse the newbie questions. Although I'm a decently read car enthusiast, my knowledge rapidly dimishes outside of BMWs.
Does anyone consider the Carrera 4 a good track day/HPDE car, possibly even better than the standard RWD Carrera, as the driven front wheels help to keep the car better balanced and the driver out of trouble? Or is the 4 just considered a bit overweight and completely undesirable for track days? I only do about 5 or 6 total days on the track each year, but a big part of the reason I'm looking to ditch my 3 Series and get a Porsche is because P cars are more fun to drive. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by getting the wrong car.
I'm looking at certified used cars from about 2006 or 2007 at Porsche dealers. Are there any known issues to look for? Is there a link to a compilation of what to look for when buying a used 997 around? Are the dreaded IMS failures popping up on the 997?
I could give you my life story, tell you how my two little kids (ages 10 and 6) can still fit in the back of a 911, etc, but I'll try to keep this first post short. Suffice it to say that since I seem to be in a serious position at this point to afford a lightly used 997, I think I should go for it within the next few months. The only other contenders are the new E92 M3, a new Audi B8 S4, or buying a Cayman and keeping my 3 Series (since the Cayman is a two seater, it won't cut it as a daily driver with our kids).
From my experience at other car forums, I think this thread could go one of three ways:
-get a few good responses, I thank people, learn a bit
-everyone ignores the newbie, as they're tired of answering the same old questions
-I get laughed out of the forum, and have to change my username for asking such stupid questions
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Pic of my 330i that I bought new in 2003, now with Bilstein PSS10 coilovers and BBS RGR wheels. It's almost time to move on.
Does anyone consider the Carrera 4 a good track day/HPDE car, possibly even better than the standard RWD Carrera, as the driven front wheels help to keep the car better balanced and the driver out of trouble? Or is the 4 just considered a bit overweight and completely undesirable for track days? I only do about 5 or 6 total days on the track each year, but a big part of the reason I'm looking to ditch my 3 Series and get a Porsche is because P cars are more fun to drive. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by getting the wrong car.
I'm looking at certified used cars from about 2006 or 2007 at Porsche dealers. Are there any known issues to look for? Is there a link to a compilation of what to look for when buying a used 997 around? Are the dreaded IMS failures popping up on the 997?
I could give you my life story, tell you how my two little kids (ages 10 and 6) can still fit in the back of a 911, etc, but I'll try to keep this first post short. Suffice it to say that since I seem to be in a serious position at this point to afford a lightly used 997, I think I should go for it within the next few months. The only other contenders are the new E92 M3, a new Audi B8 S4, or buying a Cayman and keeping my 3 Series (since the Cayman is a two seater, it won't cut it as a daily driver with our kids).
From my experience at other car forums, I think this thread could go one of three ways:
-get a few good responses, I thank people, learn a bit
-everyone ignores the newbie, as they're tired of answering the same old questions
-I get laughed out of the forum, and have to change my username for asking such stupid questions
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Pic of my 330i that I bought new in 2003, now with Bilstein PSS10 coilovers and BBS RGR wheels. It's almost time to move on.
As others said, C4 is easier to be faster, but C2 would be faster with good 911 drivers. Transition to C4 is definitely easier. I got my C4S this July and I came from a similar situation like you, had an Audi S4.
The improvement is tremendous! I do not actually feel that car is heavy at all, probably due to coming from a heavier car, it's easier to pull urself out of the corners with C4, and it's definitely faster in rain. First time I tracked the car, it was a mixed day, half was dry, half was wet. While dry, I got my a$$ kicked by a 996 GT3, but then as soon as it started raining, I was all over his back!
People are going to disagree, but 997.1 C4S was just a tad faster on Nurburgring (according to Top Gear), and in one episode Stig got C4S faster around a track built for rallies (while he said C2S was just a bit more fun, easier to slide).
Overall, I ABSOLUTELY love my C4S, I LOVE THE WIDE BODY, it makes all the difference in how it looks from behind, I had no issues in extreme rain this fall, and it did incredibly well on track (only once since I bought it). Put some winters on, and I drive it every day, even when I had mild snow.
Get one... You won't regret it!
01-24-2010, 02:31 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
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if i were in killadelphia, i'd get a C4 or C4s (please pardon the insult, i'm from pittsburgh so i can't let an opportunity to bust on philly pass by )
you'll have a blast on the track and it will treat you very well as a daily driver. my kids fit in the back just fine and i use porsche booster seats. there are lots of threads about what seats to use too.
given my driving preferences which were 1) i want a daily driver that could accommodate kids and 2) i want a very capable track car, i bought a C2S but i may end up with a C4S after i sell this one. i happen to be on a slow boat to a PDK but that's a different story altogether. i live in seattle and spend lots of time in the rain with virtually none in the snow in the porsche and the 2wd is fine. there are times i wish i had a 4 so i could strap on skis and take my daughter up to the mountains but i use my wife's car for that.
for the most part, the snow capabilities will really be determined by tire choice but if you have all season tires the AWD will be more than capable.
-brendan
)you'll have a blast on the track and it will treat you very well as a daily driver. my kids fit in the back just fine and i use porsche booster seats. there are lots of threads about what seats to use too.
given my driving preferences which were 1) i want a daily driver that could accommodate kids and 2) i want a very capable track car, i bought a C2S but i may end up with a C4S after i sell this one. i happen to be on a slow boat to a PDK but that's a different story altogether. i live in seattle and spend lots of time in the rain with virtually none in the snow in the porsche and the 2wd is fine. there are times i wish i had a 4 so i could strap on skis and take my daughter up to the mountains but i use my wife's car for that.
for the most part, the snow capabilities will really be determined by tire choice but if you have all season tires the AWD will be more than capable.
-brendan
01-24-2010, 12:03 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Phil - if one of your main drivers for leaning toward the C4 is the rear engine, I wouldn't worry. The car is very stable and safe for all but reckless track newbies, and PSM further increases that safety margin.
You don't need the AWD for the track - most will tell you the RWD car is faster (lighter) and has better handling and feel.
Having said that, drive them and get the car you want! All 997 variants are great P-cars.
You don't need the AWD for the track - most will tell you the RWD car is faster (lighter) and has better handling and feel.
Having said that, drive them and get the car you want! All 997 variants are great P-cars.
01-24-2010, 01:49 PM
#19
Racer
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01-24-2010, 04:11 PM
#20
Poseur
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Something that is rarely considered but should be covered is the increased complexity of the 4WD cars over the 2WD ones. It goes in spades for the turbos.
Think about maintenance expenses down stream with a 4. First, you'll go through tires faster on a 4WD than a 2, and ou are carrying more unnecessary weight with you all the time.
If you are obsessed with having a big butt, then buy a 4, but just recognize that you will incur a penalty.
the 2WD cars are set up very well, compared to years ago. It's much harder to get into trouble with a current 2WD than one from the 80s or even 90s.
Think about maintenance expenses down stream with a 4. First, you'll go through tires faster on a 4WD than a 2, and ou are carrying more unnecessary weight with you all the time.
If you are obsessed with having a big butt, then buy a 4, but just recognize that you will incur a penalty.
the 2WD cars are set up very well, compared to years ago. It's much harder to get into trouble with a current 2WD than one from the 80s or even 90s.
01-24-2010, 04:58 PM
#21
width?
Hi guys,
I am confused. I tought the 997.1 and .2 did not have any width difference between the standard carrera, S, and 4S?
I just went to the Porsche website and did a comparison of the Carrera and the 4S and it states that they both have a width of 71.18".
The only areas they are different are in height and weight.
The 996, on the other hand, did have a noticeable width difference between C and 4S.
Am I missing misunderstanding something?
Thanks,
-T
I am confused. I tought the 997.1 and .2 did not have any width difference between the standard carrera, S, and 4S?
I just went to the Porsche website and did a comparison of the Carrera and the 4S and it states that they both have a width of 71.18".
The only areas they are different are in height and weight.
The 996, on the other hand, did have a noticeable width difference between C and 4S.
Am I missing misunderstanding something?
Thanks,
-T
01-24-2010, 05:22 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Hi guys,
I am confused. I tought the 997.1 and .2 did not have any width difference between the standard carrera, S, and 4S?
I just went to the Porsche website and did a comparison of the Carrera and the 4S and it states that they both have a width of 71.18".
The only areas they are different are in height and weight.
The 996, on the other hand, did have a noticeable width difference between C and 4S.
Am I missing misunderstanding something?
Thanks,
-T
I am confused. I tought the 997.1 and .2 did not have any width difference between the standard carrera, S, and 4S?
I just went to the Porsche website and did a comparison of the Carrera and the 4S and it states that they both have a width of 71.18".
The only areas they are different are in height and weight.
The 996, on the other hand, did have a noticeable width difference between C and 4S.
Am I missing misunderstanding something?
Thanks,
-T
https://rennlist.com/forums/7249124-post9.html
Targas, 4, 4S, GT3RS, GT2 & TT are 72.91" wide, the rest 71.18".
01-24-2010, 06:00 PM
#24
.org
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Having a 996C2 as my only car for 5 years..yes in Phillly..I never once wished for all wheel.
We get 2-4 snows a year here , at best. and there was never any time that the 2 wheel and a good set of snow tires didn't navigate the mini mountain I need to climb to get off my road.
My neighbors in their front wheel Saabs and what-evers with "all season" tires always struggled and often failed to climb the hiil.
Do not forget that the engine weight is above the drive wheels. With winter tires the car is a tank.
My current 997s stays high and dry in bad weather and my all wheel drive 2004 R32 does the dirty work, again with winter tires.
Now, why buy all wheel with the VW ? Well, it's not front wheel drive.
That and a 6 speed 260 hp with the heart of Audi, in a small package.
If I could turn off the front wheel drive portion, or have deleted it, I'd make it rear wheel in a heartbeat.
I have installed a modified haldex controller that increases the rear wheel balance.
Many assume that if 2 is good then 4 must be better.
I submit, in this case, less is more.
Buy the C2.
We get 2-4 snows a year here , at best. and there was never any time that the 2 wheel and a good set of snow tires didn't navigate the mini mountain I need to climb to get off my road.
My neighbors in their front wheel Saabs and what-evers with "all season" tires always struggled and often failed to climb the hiil.
Do not forget that the engine weight is above the drive wheels. With winter tires the car is a tank.
My current 997s stays high and dry in bad weather and my all wheel drive 2004 R32 does the dirty work, again with winter tires.
Now, why buy all wheel with the VW ? Well, it's not front wheel drive.
That and a 6 speed 260 hp with the heart of Audi, in a small package.
If I could turn off the front wheel drive portion, or have deleted it, I'd make it rear wheel in a heartbeat.
I have installed a modified haldex controller that increases the rear wheel balance.
Many assume that if 2 is good then 4 must be better.
I submit, in this case, less is more.
Buy the C2.
01-24-2010, 06:14 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
LOL!
As you can see whoever's got C2 recommends C2 and whoever's got C4, recommends C4!
I love the last comment comparing a C2 on winter tires to AWD on all-season or summer tires. There's absolutely NO DOUBT you'd do WAY BETTER in snow with AWD vs. RWD both on winter tires.
Also, C4 is NOT that much heavier (50 Kg). The one other advantage is the LESS of a rear bias with some more weight up front. That FOR ME, was actually one of the best things about C4. We all know how rear heavy a 911 is. Also, as I said C4S was faster on Top Gear test... so I am sure you won't notice a big difference at all.
Having said all that, for pure track purposes, I'd also go with a RWD GT3 (lighter, purpose built). But for daily, combo road/track, C4 is absolutely the right car!!!
As you can see whoever's got C2 recommends C2 and whoever's got C4, recommends C4!
I love the last comment comparing a C2 on winter tires to AWD on all-season or summer tires. There's absolutely NO DOUBT you'd do WAY BETTER in snow with AWD vs. RWD both on winter tires.
Also, C4 is NOT that much heavier (50 Kg). The one other advantage is the LESS of a rear bias with some more weight up front. That FOR ME, was actually one of the best things about C4. We all know how rear heavy a 911 is. Also, as I said C4S was faster on Top Gear test... so I am sure you won't notice a big difference at all.
Having said all that, for pure track purposes, I'd also go with a RWD GT3 (lighter, purpose built). But for daily, combo road/track, C4 is absolutely the right car!!!
Last edited by alexb76; 01-24-2010 at 07:07 PM.
01-24-2010, 07:24 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
I agree with Dan. You are going to incur additional wear and tear
expenses over the life with a C4. Certainly something to consider.
In addition, you have a lot more moving parts with the
AWD system, which likely will lead to a few more mechanical issues.
In addition, I have always found skinny chicks with small and tight asses sexier.
expenses over the life with a C4. Certainly something to consider.
In addition, you have a lot more moving parts with the
AWD system, which likely will lead to a few more mechanical issues.
In addition, I have always found skinny chicks with small and tight asses sexier.
01-24-2010, 07:29 PM
#27
Nordschleife Master
Something that is rarely considered but should be covered is the increased complexity of the 4WD cars over the 2WD ones. It goes in spades for the turbos.
Think about maintenance expenses down stream with a 4. First, you'll go through tires faster on a 4WD than a 2, and ou are carrying more unnecessary weight with you all the time.
If you are obsessed with having a big butt, then buy a 4, but just recognize that you will incur a penalty.
the 2WD cars are set up very well, compared to years ago. It's much harder to get into trouble with a current 2WD than one from the 80s or even 90s.
Think about maintenance expenses down stream with a 4. First, you'll go through tires faster on a 4WD than a 2, and ou are carrying more unnecessary weight with you all the time.
If you are obsessed with having a big butt, then buy a 4, but just recognize that you will incur a penalty.
the 2WD cars are set up very well, compared to years ago. It's much harder to get into trouble with a current 2WD than one from the 80s or even 90s.
I agree with you. I had a 996 C4 but now I have a 997 C2. The 997 chassis design is much improved. A 997 C2 is as planted as a 996 C4.
.
01-24-2010, 07:39 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
I agree with Dan. You are going to incur additional wear and tear
expenses over the life with a C4. Certainly something to consider.
In addition, you have a lot more moving parts with the
AWD system, which likely will lead to a few more mechanical issues.
In addition, I have always found skinny chicks with small and tight asses sexier.
expenses over the life with a C4. Certainly something to consider.
In addition, you have a lot more moving parts with the
AWD system, which likely will lead to a few more mechanical issues.
In addition, I have always found skinny chicks with small and tight asses sexier.
Buy whatever cranks your *** more! All great cars...
btw, coming from Audis, I never had any major issue with AWD, all issues were electrical/sensors, and we all know Porsche are a lot more reliable.
01-24-2010, 09:35 PM
#30